What's so good about 5.7x28mm?

This is a discussion on What's so good about 5.7x28mm? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by jualdeaux The calibre itself was designed... to tumble and yaw once in the softer stuff. Pardon? Source please? The FiveseveN exists because ...

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Thread: What's so good about 5.7x28mm?

  1. #16
    BAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by jualdeaux View Post
    The calibre itself was designed... to tumble and yaw once in the softer stuff.
    Pardon? Source please?

    The FiveseveN exists because the P90 exists. The PS90 exists because the P90 exists and needed to be "Americanized". The P90 exists because FN Herstal wanted a bite of what it perceived as a burgeoning PDW market, believing that being among the first to make a serious offer in such a market would both create greater interest in the market and forgive using a proprietary caliber. The folks at FN Herstal are business-people, and have been most successful as a manufacturer first, innovator second. Why not add a profile to their name?

    When you're discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of a caliber designed to compete with the MP-5 (which the P90's caliber was/is), you're discussing calibers that are competing with handgun ammunition. That's not a high hurdle to beat. Is anyone here confident enough in their weapon, of any caliber, to shoot just once?


    -B

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  3. #17
    Member Array Mercalf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jualdeaux View Post
    I love to watch conversations about this between people who have taken the time to form a knowledgeable opinion and those who believe the internet and gun shop gossip. I have yet to see someone won over by facts though. Hmm.

    janq is totally correct. The 5.7x28 was designed as a Personal Defence Weapon round to be used in a very compact weapon. The P90 was designed for use by those who do not have a need for a full sized battle rifle. Examples could be the USSS, and other protection services who need to be somewhat discreet, helicopter pilots and other vehicle drivers who might have to egress from the vehicle quickly. Or just someone who didn't want to carry a full sized rifle. Basically, it was made to have better penetration and ergonomics than an MP5.

    The calibre itself was designed to have high initial penetration capabilities and then to tumble and yaw once in the softer stuff.
    Any fact on this gun wouldn't win me over. Again - that P90 costs around 2 grand (FACT). Ammo - expensive - FACT (especially since it's supposed to compete with 9mm carbines). I would never spend 2 grand on something in the year which brinks to be a demi-election!

    Your ammo sources are all online... My guy at just 'one' of the local stores told me that they will no longer carry it, and then explained the reasoning behind it.

    Also, my argument is with the semi. The round is GREAT in full auto (which I said in my other post), but it's rediculous to spend 2 grand on a semi- carbine/rifle/pistol, whatever... The only purpose is it's cool looks. Concealment/trunk capabilities? There's many other .308 options out there, which spank the pants off this round. You're basically getting a hyped up 9mm with armor piercing capabilities, in a typically expensive British fashion.

    If you work in the government, and have a full - auto, I apologize. But, imo - if you're willing to spend a couple grand on a semi-auto carbine in that round, you're off your rocker... The gun was designed to be used in government situations (like someone said with the MP5), in fully auto mode.
    Some people don't deserve saving.

    ....the water is almost at a boil

  4. #18
    bae
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    I have a PS90, which did NOT run me "two grand", I think it was about $1300.

    Works great on raccoons.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Update:

    This morning an e-mail from Midway arrived indicating yet another 'Sale' on 5.7x28mm ammo.
    This stuff has been on sale perpetually for years now. Folks who say/comment that it costs alot are thinking to the start when it first came out and there was just one mfr., dating back 5 yrs. ago.

    Below is a link to their promo...

    "FN 5.7x28mm Ammo Sale"
    MidwayUSA - FN 5.7x28mm Ammo Sale

    FN SS195LF Ammunition 5.7x28mm FN 28.5 Grain Lead-Free Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 50
    Product #: 561757
    Status: Available
    Our Price: $18.99 Sale!

    FN SS197SR Ammunition 5.7x28mm FN 40 Grain Hornady V-Max Box of 50
    Product #: 428067
    Status: Available
    Our Price: $18.99 Sale!

    For direct comparison below are other chamberings also offered by Midway

    9MM - Ammunition - Shop Premium & Discount Ammunition at MidwayUSA
    .45 ACP - http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Brow...g=653***691***
    .40 S&W - Ammunition - Shop Premium & Discount Ammunition at MidwayUSA
    .223 - Ammunition - Shop Premium & Discount Ammunition at MidwayUSA

    Box to box pricing, today, of the 5.7x28 is same (!), similar, and even in some instances cheaper than all of the above popular chamberings.
    The excuse of 5.7 costs too much is no longer true, and hasn't been for some time now, as based on real world ammo pricing statements.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    We can't seem to get them up here, the US state department won't let them be exported from the US and FN will not sell them except to a distributor. People have called the distributor here who says talk to FN, call FN and they say talk the distributor. Same with the FS2000, a few made it up here by way of a silly young man who flaunted the laws of both Canada and the US, he is now in jail.

  7. #21
    Member Array CJS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    I have a PS90, which did NOT run me "two grand", I think it was about $1300.

    Works great on raccoons.
    So does my Mossberg 22lr, and I only paid $100 for it. I've always thought that people who bought this weapon had way to much time and money on their hands.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJS3 View Post
    So does my Mossberg 22lr, and I only paid $100 for it. I've always thought that people who bought this weapon had way to much time and money on their hands.
    Eh, I'd be willing to bet the PS90 will take a 'coon better than a .22 lr, all other things being equal. Your second sentance, though, I can't disagree with; an SBR'd P90 is the highest gun up on my WANT list (neck and neck with an AK74SU), but won't find itself on my NEED list any time soon.


    -B

  9. #23
    Member Array J Bowen's Avatar
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    I saw some 5.7 ammo a few weeks ago
    at a gunshow $20 for 50rds. Used to be
    almost double the price. I think it would
    be nice to have the five seven pistol because of
    its low recoil, accuracy and has a 20rd capacity
    but as far as the P90 dont think I would pay for
    one unless I could get a full auto suppressed version.

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    The 5.7 is designed as a pistol round.
    The PS90 is a nice shooting piece. I like it more than the 5.7 pistol
    I like the way it handles, I like the slight recoil, the high cap mags, all of it.
    I think I paid about 1300 for mine.
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

  11. #25
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    Just a few facts about living in San Antonio,TX

    Just for FYI,
    I have found the 5.7 round at five different stores including local and big box store. Basically, everywhere I have looked for it, I have found it. A difficult round to find? I completely disagree unless you live in the middle of nowhere. They run between $19.00 to $22 for a box of 50. The FiveSeven handgun in Texas comes with 3 - 20 round magazines and a cleaning kit. In Texas, you can purchase a magazine conversion kit to increase the magazine capacity to 30 rounds without increasing the size of the magazine itself. Technically, in Texas I can legally conceal and carry a handgun with 91 rounds. I can acquire a FiveSeven handgun for $950 and the PS90 for $1350. Two grand for a PS90? Someone is seriously ripping people off.
    I have seen the PS90 for sale for over $2000 but in Texas you can purchase any gun (non-automatic of course) and walk out the store with it the same day. I feel if you really must have a weapon of this type the same day, you will probably pay the extra mark up. The price don't include any tax stamps or fees.
    I really love Texas.
    Again in Texas, I can legally purchase a 50-round magazine for the PS90. I have not five the guns themselves. I am going to find out if I can rent either one for test firing at a local range. I prefer shooting multiple targets and different heights and from different positions. 30 rounds of return fire will definitely screw with your mind. I understand the different in the size and effects of different size rounds. I am not saying it is the perfect or best round. I am saying I like the high round capacity. The recoil seems great for petite women and young adults.
    Last edited by Driven_Red; February 28th, 2012 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Spelling

  12. #26
    Member Array Crowbait's Avatar
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    Get out the Zombie ammo...
    A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government. --George Washington

  13. #27
    Member Array RockStrongo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven_Red View Post
    Just for FYI,
    I have found the 5.7 round at five different stores including local and big box store. Basically, everywhere I have looked for it, I have found it. A difficult round to find? I completely disagree unless you live in the middle of nowhere. They run between $19.00 to $22 for a box of 50. The FiveSeven handgun in Texas comes with 3 - 20 round magazines and a cleaning kit. In Texas, you can purchase a magazine conversion kit to increase the magazine capacity to 30 rounds without increasing the size of the magazine itself. Technically, in Texas I can legally conceal and carry a handgun with 91 rounds. I can acquire a FiveSeven handgun for $950 and the PS90 for $1350. Two grand for a PS90? Someone is seriously ripping people off.
    I have seen the PS90 for sale for over $2000 but in Texas you can purchase any gun (non-automatic of course) and walk out the store with it the same day. I feel if you really must have a weapon of this type the same day, you will probably pay the extra mark up. The price don't include any tax stamps or fees.
    I really love Texas.
    Again in Texas, I can legally purchase a 50-round magazine for the PS90. I have not five the guns themselves. I am going to find out if I can rent either one for test firing at a local range. I prefer shooting multiple targets and different heights and from different positions. 30 rounds of return fire will definitely screw with your mind. I understand the different in the size and effects of different size rounds. I am not saying it is the perfect or best round. I am saying I like the high round capacity. The recoil seems great for petite women and young adults.
    bear in mind you are replying to a 4 year old thread. Ammo and firearm prices have changed a good bit since then.

  14. #28
    New Member Array rfalcon's Avatar
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    It's interesting to go back and read an old thread, and see how various predictions have turned out. A bit like stepping back in time..

    A lot more ballistic testing has been done on the 5.7 since 2008, and a lot of myths dissolved.

    Since this has already been kicked back up by someone, I wondered if the people who commented here four years ago have modified their opinions of the round over the years; those who still participate in the forum. So I'm asking:

    Any changed opinions?

  15. #29
    Member Array nframe357's Avatar
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    What's good about it? Not much, it's a glorified CF 22 mag that is outrageously priced but mall ninja cool. That's all that is necessary for most.

  16. #30
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    The 5.7 was designed as a NATO replacement for the 9mm, as the 5.56 replaced the 7.52, for all the same reasons; including superior terminal ballistics, which was one of the NATO requirements. The 5.7 won the bid with with flying colors and was approved, but Germany used it's veto power to stop the entire process for it's own economic reasons. Despite earlier conjectures, this is the reasons he 5.7 was created.

    A little research into terminal ballistics - how the round performs after initial penetrations - demonstrates the invalidity of the " glorified .22mag" comparison.


    In the final round, pun intended, shot placement supercedes the mythical 'stopping power' argument hands down. Kinetic energy is important, but more isn't necessarily better. There are many other factors more important.

    I've carried duty weapons all my life, from the 1911a1 to the Berretta 92F, rounds ranging from the .357, .38+P, .45, and .40S&W as well as 12 ga. And .223. The dangerous shooters are the ones who can place a round quickly and accurately, then follow it up with several more in kind. The caliber doesn't matter.

    The 5.7 is a nasty little round in proper hands. Then FiveseveN is light, accurate and deadly, and the reduced recoil permits quicker secondary shots. And tertiary, etc. It's my choice of carry gun when I retire in several months.

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