What's so good about 5.7x28mm?

This is a discussion on What's so good about 5.7x28mm? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey yall. What's the deal about 5.7x28mm ammo? The FN 57 and P90 shoot it. I was looking at ballistics data and was surprised. Sure ...

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Thread: What's so good about 5.7x28mm?

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    Member Array NickEMT's Avatar
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    What's so good about 5.7x28mm?

    Hey yall. What's the deal about 5.7x28mm ammo? The FN 57 and P90 shoot it. I was looking at ballistics data and was surprised. Sure the velocity is awesome, 1800fps. But, the energy was only around 350ft/lbs. Now I understand that figures aren't everything, but still, the round just seems like it would punch right through you without transferring much energy at all.
    Last edited by NickEMT; August 11th, 2008 at 03:29 PM. Reason: typo

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    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    FN

    The civillan ammo is mostly polymer tipped varmint bullets or a lightly constructed varmint style JHP. While I'm relatively neutral about the caliber, I don't think bullets of this design will zip on through somebody. Probably fragment pretty well as designed.

    This should be good for a lively "discussion". I'll get the popcorn.

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    Member Array Mercalf's Avatar
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    That ammo will soon be unavailable to civs. It's carried by the Secret Service in P90 (FULLY AUTO), so the velocity and ft. lbs are great. It's a great little gun/round to get out of trouble quick. Recoil is next to nothing, so you can place many, many rounds in a small area - very fast. However, in the civillian version, the semi is basically dwarfed by anything else you can carry. Why not the small .308 hybrid?

    It's one of those - they have it, so I want it. Sorta deals. Plus, what's cooler than a p90??

    Again though, it's going to be taken off the civillian market by as early as 2009 from what my g'smiths say.
    Some people don't deserve saving.

    ....the water is almost at a boil

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    Member Array NickEMT's Avatar
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    If the USSS uses it, it must be good. The USSS carries .357 SIG as I do after all hehehe. Taken off the market you say? Remind me not to buy a 57 or P90. I never thought of the differences between the LE load and the civ load. Must be a trip to fire in a P90!

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    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercalf View Post
    That ammo will soon be unavailable to civs.

    I doubt that the ammo will be unavailable. I'd be interested in where you got that information. The only 5.7 ammo that is not sold is the military and LE only, armour piercing rounds. It is bonded and thus illegal to sell to civilians. Otherwise the civilian rounds are available now and probably will be for many years to come.


    Hey yall. What's the deal about 5.7x28mm ammo? The FN 57 and P90 shoot it. I was looking at ballistics data and was surprised. Sure the velocity is awesome, 1800fps. But, the energy was only around 350ft/lbs. Now I understand that figures aren't everything, but still, the round just seems like it would punch right through you without transferring much energy at all.
    Only 350 ft/lbs? That's enough to ruin your day. As mentioned the lure of the round is the lack of recoil, ease of multiple rounds on target, speed, and lack of penetration, useful in a HD situation. The secret service is of course interested in defeating someone with body armour, barriers, etc., as well as ease of concealment. That's why they get the good ammo and we don't. It's tough walking around with a .50 Barrett under your arm all day. A PS90 is much easier.

    As far as over penetration, you may be interested in these ballistic gell tests. They show remarkable lack of over penetration.

    Brass Fetcher Ballistic testing

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    The 5.7 round was designed for support military troops to carry with the idea of body armor penetration(so I read). As an idea CCW round? Doesn't seem to be. I would be concerned with over penetration and less tissue damage than a larger diameter caliber bullet.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
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    [Try this link to gell test
    SS195 FMJ and SS197 ballistic tip (bare and heavy clothing)

    I would be concerned with over penetration and less tissue damage than a larger diameter caliber bullet.
    rocky,
    What data are you looking at?

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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickEMT View Post
    Hey yall. What's the deal about 5.7x28mm ammo? The FN 57 and P90 shoot it. I was looking at ballistics data and was surprised. Sure the velocity is awesome, 1800fps. But, the energy was only around 350ft/lbs. Now I understand that figures aren't everything, but still, the round just seems like it would punch right through you without transferring much energy at all.
    Personally...without the LEO/M AP ammo, I think it's overrated.

    From what I understand, the civvie rounds coming out of a pistol are about the equivalent of .22WMR. Not a legendary manstopper by any stretch of the imagination.

    20 round mag (in the pistol)? Big deal. I can get 19 rounds of 9mm in a glock mag with a extender...and rumor has it that the next XD-M will be a 20-shot 9mm (I know I can stuff 20 rounds--21 with some force--into a 16-shot .40 cal XD-M mag).

    Add on the ammo is ridiculously expensive, and hard to find...looks like a taktikool toy to me.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

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    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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    New Member Array bnielsonak47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickEMT View Post
    If the USSS uses it, it must be good. The USSS carries .357 SIG as I do after all hehehe. Taken off the market you say? Remind me not to buy a 57 or P90. I never thought of the differences between the LE load and the civ load. Must be a trip to fire in a P90!


    I male always makes me wonder when they post hehehe, simply put hehehe is for girls. oh and the 5.7 is one crappy round

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    Member Array Mercalf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripley16 View Post
    I doubt that the ammo will be unavailable. I'd be interested in where you got that information. The only 5.7 ammo that is not sold is the military and LE only, armour piercing rounds. It is bonded and thus illegal to sell to civilians. Otherwise the civilian rounds are available now and probably will be for many years to come.




    Only 350 ft/lbs? That's enough to ruin your day. As mentioned the lure of the round is the lack of recoil, ease of multiple rounds on target, speed, and lack of penetration, useful in a HD situation. The secret service is of course interested in defeating someone with body armour, barriers, etc., as well as ease of concealment. That's why they get the good ammo and we don't. It's tough walking around with a .50 Barrett under your arm all day. A PS90 is much easier.

    As far as over penetration, you may be interested in these ballistic gell tests. They show remarkable lack of over penetration.

    Brass Fetcher Ballistic testing
    My old trustworthy smith told me. If that's not convincing - just think of sheer logic. There are TOO many rounds out there in semi that out perform it. It would be downright...can I say dumb? to buy that P90 in a SEMI, for 2 grand, then spend a rediculous amount on ammo for it. There are just TOO many better options out there for a semi, small, compact, man-stopping, tactical, cool, black, new-age, RIFLE.

    As for that pistol? It's been around for AGES in the Army. It was originally contracted to them and I'm not sure if it stuck or not, but it's HORRIBLE. Follow-up accuracy on the pistol was downright bad. Like someone said, if it's capacity - stick with a 9mm. If it's crazy balistics, go with the .45 +p's.
    Some people don't deserve saving.

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    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
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    Whether you like or hate the 5.7 round, you should at least base your decision on facts, not questionable internet chit-chat and certainly not your local gun shop expert. Most of what I see posted about the two FN firearms and especially about the ammo is simply incorrect. As with any gun and as with any particular ammo, they all have their uses and the 5.7 is no different. Those of us that actually have them, shoot them and have learned about them, know this.

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    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    This caliber doesn't interest me in the least ! It's over priced and gets nothing but bad press because of its aromor priecing capabilities.When I squeeze the trigger I want to feel some recoil.

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    BAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercalf View Post
    There are just TOO many better options out there for a semi, small, compact, man-stopping, tactical, cool, black, new-age, RIFLE.
    Probably because the P90 isn't a rifle, was never designed to be a rifle, and is too often improperly compared to a rifle because it doesn't share the same role as a rifle?

    Or maybe I'm just crazy.


    -B
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed Ripley.

    As well the cost of the ammunition dropped three years ago (!) following ramping up of Fioochi as a manufacturer and today is no more spendy than duty/defensive grade 9MM...

    FN10700012 - FNH 5.7X28 50RD LEAD FREE SS 195 @ $19.99/50 rd. bx
    FN10700016 - FNH 5.7X28 40GR HOR V-MAX BLUE @ $19.99/50 rd. bx
    Source - Natchez Shooters Supplies - Shop Ammo - Handgun

    CCI Gold Dot
    CC23611 - GOLD DOT 9MM+P 124GR HP SHT 20BX @ $17.17/ 50 rd. bx.

    Corbon
    CB09115/20 - 20 RD. 9MM+P 115GR. JHP AMMO @ $20.09/50 rd. bx
    CB09125/20 - 20 RD. 9MM+P 125GR. JHP AMMO @ $20.40/50 rd. bx
    CB0990/20 - 20 RD. 9MM+P 90GR. JHP AMMO @ $20.40/50 rd. bx

    Source - Natchez Shooters Supplies - Shop Ammo - Handgun

    I've seen it for less than this on sale via online retailers and as provided by mfr. FNH as well as Fiocchi.
    Additionally agreed BAC the P90 is not a rifle and was not designed as such. Same for it's ammunition as comparing it in function to that of conventional ammunition and applying conventional testing measures to which commonly result in no surprise unconventional results. The arms both the P90 and the FiveSeven pistol as well as the 5.7x28mm round they were designed around are all unconventional by pretty much every aspect of their being.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
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    I love to watch conversations about this between people who have taken the time to form a knowledgeable opinion and those who believe the internet and gun shop gossip. I have yet to see someone won over by facts though. Hmm.

    janq is totally correct. The 5.7x28 was designed as a Personal Defence Weapon round to be used in a very compact weapon. The P90 was designed for use by those who do not have a need for a full sized battle rifle. Examples could be the USSS, and other protection services who need to be somewhat discreet, helicopter pilots and other vehicle drivers who might have to egress from the vehicle quickly. Or just someone who didn't want to carry a full sized rifle. Basically, it was made to have better penetration and ergonomics than an MP5.

    The calibre itself was designed to have high initial penetration capabilities and then to tumble and yaw once in the softer stuff.
    Bend the knees, smooth is fast, watch the front sight.

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