Would you be willing to give up some of your rights - Page 4

Would you be willing to give up some of your rights

This is a discussion on Would you be willing to give up some of your rights within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; any law they pass, the perps will get around, plain and simple. all it will do it make our life harder and cost us more ...

View Poll Results: Would you be willing to produce Id and background check to buy ammo?

Voters
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  • Yes, if it would help hinder BG from buying ammo

    16 5.73%
  • NO, I don’t want the Government to know when I buy ammo

    263 94.27%
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Thread: Would you be willing to give up some of your rights

  1. #46
    762
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    any law they pass, the perps will get around, plain and simple. all it will do it make our life harder and cost us more money (which is what every gun law does now). The good guy gets punished to make a politician look good during an election year.

    The AWB is a good example...it solved NOTHING.
    Let's Roll - Todd Beamer

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  2. #47
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    Agree to limited restrictions that will last 5 or 10 years. Then hopefully after 5 or 10 years, we would have a better , gun friendly, climate.

    I am reading a lot into the poll, but it is the gut reaction from gun-owners that worries me. We get caught up trying to win an argument instead of keeping our eye on the true "right" and also creating the responsible image.
    With all due respect, its your attitude that allowed the AWB to pass, and the Chicago and DC gun bans to come to pass. The give a little or they will take a lot attitude is naive. They are trying to take everything in the first place. Every concession brings the Anti's one step closer to where they want to be: a gun-free society.

    Just think, a few hundred years ago some guys got together and made some kind of rule that the gov't could not infringe upon your right to keep and bear arms. Look how watered down they have managed to make the 2nd Amendment.

    You can tout compromise and reasonable restrictions all you want. I don't buy it. There is nothing reasonable about restrictions that only restrict the good guys. There is nothing rational about gun control, and I refuse to compromise or come to a meeting of the mind with people who are not rational.

    Quote Originally Posted by me
    I will never understand why people think that making more laws will solve a problem caused by current laws not being obeyed.

    Insanity is continuing to do the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  3. #48
    762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    Ya, I agree, but how would you prevent people from buying the ammo and selling it to people with out permits. The purchase needs to be traced by LE.

    The anti-gun crowd is serious (and finding gun control success) by increasing the cost of ammo (taxes, id # ammo, etc) . They increase the cost, then after a while, show that the average owner is not accurate with a sidearm.

    It is best to have gun owners who have practice with the side arm. I am willing to give up a little privacy to LE to safeguard my rights and keep costs down. Yes, as always, I am worried LE could track down all the guns and take them (this has often happened in world history).

    However, in the current political climate, I assure everyone, if we don't give a little, we are going to lose a lot.

    Agree to limited restrictions that will last 5 or 10 years. Then hopefully after 5 or 10 years, we would have a better, gun friendly, climate.

    I am reading a lot into the poll, but it is the gut reaction from gun-owners that worries me. We get caught up trying to win an argument instead of keeping our eye on the true "right" and also creating the responsible image.
    responsible image? at what cost? being sheep to registration, regulation, fees and taxes? IMHO, i do not think the climate towards guns will get much rosier then it is now.
    Let's Roll - Todd Beamer

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  4. #49
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    ...giving the BGs another reason to break into my (or your) house...
    Interesting thought.

  5. #50
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    I will Not RELINQUISHES any of my personal rights to any government or man to feel safe. Too much American blood been shed for this right !

  6. #51
    762
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    soon, legal gun owners will be regulated into needing licenses to shoot at ranges and having to mail the spent brass to the govt. afterwards.

    these laws are not effecting criminals, they effect us. which i think is their true motive. Regulate us out of existence. I think gun owners are more of a threat to the govt. then rag tag criminals. they are a dime a dozen.
    Let's Roll - Todd Beamer

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  7. #52
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    I refuse to compromise or come to a meeting of the mind with people who are not rational.
    Gun-owners assume the anti-gun crowd are "irrational" and "sheep." The "liberals" think gun-owners are crazies and close minded nuts. Anyone see that 30-days TV show on this?

    I am not suggesting compromise. This is not a privilege, this is a Right!

    There are reasonable restrictions and solutions. Unlimited restrictions on ammo are a thing of the past. If you think unlimited restrictions are the only reasonable option, then you are a vast majority on a web site about CCW, but a minority in the Republic. The pro-gun crowd is getting easy to read and easy to work arround.

    If you refuse to find an reasonable solution, and stick to a one sided mantra, then you become the sheep (well, sheep with guns).

  8. #53
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Well, thanis, its not often I am referred to as a sheep. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion. Hopefully, there are enough of us one-sided sheep to prevent you from seeing what would eventually happen if you get more of the 'reasonable restrictions' that you speak of.

    Honestly, I see us moving in the other direction. Less restrictions and less regulation.

    As you said, history is available to anyone who wants to read it. The end result of regulation and registration is always the same.

    As far as you earlier question...
    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    Not saying, for certain, ammo restrictions will work. Then again, I don't what unique id numbered ammo brass. That would shoot ammo up to an all time high. Anyone have a better solution?

    "These things just don't work well to solve real problems." Then what does?
    Lock up the people who commit crimes and stop letting them out early.

    Stop our DA's from plea-bargaining the criminals sentences away. Stop our DA's from giving pieces of crap immunity. Prosecute every criminal every time. Hold the parole board criminally liable for the actions of any thug they let out early.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

    http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

    Who is John Galt?

  9. #54
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    However, in the current political climate, I assure everyone, if we don't give a little, we are going to lose a lot.
    Bravo Sierra. I'm not buying that tired old liberal hand wringing ,woe is me, technique.

    That kind of attitude is EXACTLY how we arrived where we are today.

    If you giver the anti's an inch, they'll take a mile.

    Who's side are you on anyway? I dont care if you want to give up some of your freedoms to feel good. When you want to give mine away to make you feel good, then that earns you a spot in the place where my enemies reside.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  10. #55
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    If you refuse to find an reasonable solution, and stick to a one sided mantra, then you become the sheep (well, sheep with guns).

    Spoken like a true expert of compromise. Congrats. You have shown me your true colors.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  11. #56
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stetson View Post
    I will Not RELINQUISHES any of my personal rights to any government or man to feel safe. Too much American blood been shed for this right !
    Good answer. I feel ya. I'm with ya. No sarcasm, I agree.

    However this is a typical answer from a pro-gun. No need to think, just state what you feel, talk about something violent like Nazi taking guns, dead vets, cold dead hand, etc. Great for advertisements. When said by "Joe-average" it is only proof to the average public how crazy the gun crowd is.

    There is no "Right" preventing you from having to sign for the bullets you buy. An all or nothing argument will not work well. Affordable ammo is a privilege, not a right.

  12. #57
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Spoken like a true expert of compromise. Congrats. You have shown me your true colors.
    Forgot about this one. Pro-gun people always talk about a persons "true-colors" whenever the word "regulation" is used.

    So the majority solution: Don't look for solutions. The only solution, the old west. A loaded gun in the hand of a well trained, law abiding citizens. Give everyone the power of LE (and make it unrestricted), and things will work out right in the end, allowing for a period of transition to weed out the stupid.
    Last edited by Thanis; August 19th, 2008 at 07:25 PM.

  13. #58
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    I am willing to give up a little privacy to LE to safeguard my rights and keep costs down.
    You won't be safeguarding your rights, you will be driving a nail in it's coffin!

    I think it was Benjamin Franklin that said, "Those that give up liberty for security will have and deserve niether."


    Biker

  14. #59
    762
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    that's what govt. and the anti's will try and go, control with cost. giving up rights and privacy to keep cost down is a goal.

    govt: "if we make it cheap enough, they will do/give anything for it"

    the 2nd ammendment was design to keep govt. in check, not the govt. to keep people in check. those who love the 2nd A, are the ultimate threat to our ever overreaching govt.
    Let's Roll - Todd Beamer

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  15. #60
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    Forgot about this one. Pro-gun people always talk about a persons "true-colors" when ever he word regulation is used.

    Don't look for solutions. The only solution is a loaded gun in the hand of a well trained, law abiding citizen. So give everyone the power of LE (and make it unrestricted), and things will work out right in the end
    .

    Just callin it like I see it .
    Most LEO's know that more law and regulation is not the answer.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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