Would you be willing to give up some of your rights

This is a discussion on Would you be willing to give up some of your rights within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; ABSOLUTELY NOT As far as i am concerned anyone one who would forfeit our rights is a traitor. A disgrace to all those who have ...

View Poll Results: Would you be willing to produce Id and background check to buy ammo?

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  • Yes, if it would help hinder BG from buying ammo

    16 5.73%
  • NO, I donít want the Government to know when I buy ammo

    263 94.27%
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Thread: Would you be willing to give up some of your rights

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    ABSOLUTELY NOT As far as i am concerned anyone one who would forfeit our rights is a traitor. A disgrace to all those who have sacrificed their lives defending our freedom
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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  3. #62
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I think it was Benjamin Franklin that said, "Those that give up liberty for security will have and deserve niether."
    For some people, they would argue that pro-gun people "cling to their guns" and give up liberty (a safer society) for security (feel better because we own a gun). Don't quote me as this being how I think, just making a point.

    This is out of context a bit. Ben was arguing against those who felt that the limited (and reciently worsened) freedoms under British rule was better than other options (war with England, between states, other power, Indians, etc). For example, one (but not all) of the reasons we were taxed so much, compared to other servants to the Crown, was due to the costs of the French Indian War. As a matter of finance and lives, they were not sure we could be independant. Many if not most felt, better England then some other power be in charge of their lives. They were worried, as a nation, liberty would cost so much.

    I agree with Ben, but I understand the other sides point of view (as did Ben).

    You can't take everything our founding fathers wrote to apply to everything. Look at the DOI compated to the Constitution. The "pursuit of happiness" sounded great in the DOI, but when it came to creating a body of laws, happiness did not make the cut.

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    No way!

    "When men are pure, laws are useless; when men are corrupt, laws are broken."

    Benjamin Disraeli
    British politician (1804 - 1881)
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  5. #64
    762
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    i love all the good quotes from the famous dead guys...today, the best quotes we can get from our leaders are not even grammatically correct.
    Let's Roll - Todd Beamer

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  6. #65
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    ABSOLUTELY NOT As far as i am concerned anyone one who would forfeit our rights is a traitor. A disgrace to all those who have sacrificed their lives defending our freedom
    Many of those who sacrificed their lives defending our freedom forfeit not only their lives (the greatest liberty) out of duty for wars they don't believe in, but also personal liberties as a member of the armred services. So your logic makes them traitors.

    Sometimes we do have to forfeit our rights (marshal law, state secrets, and yes, high crime rates) to safeguard our society and personal liberties. This can be a good thing (during a time of crisis) or abused (USSR). This can also be taken to far (Washington DC) and create an advantage for the criminals.

    With that said, there is a balance that can be found, and the balance is not all the guns and ammo you can carry any time you want to carry.

    Goes back to a freedom of speech example. You have that right, but it does not give you the right in the movie theater. There is a free press, but that does not give the press the right to print the names of under cover agents and their AKA.

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 762 View Post
    i do not think the climate towards guns will get much rosier then it is now.
    now, but give it a year

  8. #67
    VIP Member Array sixgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    No. Considering the background check did not stop them from obtaining the gun in the first place, what would make you think it would stop them from obtaining ammo?
    +1 here. The crooks dont do anything legally anyway. Thats why there crooks.

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixgun View Post
    +1 here. The crooks dont do anything legally anyway. Thats why there crooks.
    So, why have police, you are just going to have crime anyway.

  10. #69
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    The question was, "Yes, if it would help hinder BG from buying ammo." So the question is stated with the pre-determined result, that it would hinder the BG. First thing we say, that will not hinder the criminal. However, it already stated it would.

    "NO, I don’t want the Government to know when I buy ammo" So thats what you care about. Let the BG buy ammo, as long as gun owners don't have the government looking over their shoulder. Why is this. Because the government is the greater threat.

    Our knee jerk reactions do not give us the image we deserve. Pro-gun are becoming just as much sheep as Anti-gun. I concede, pro-gun crowd are sheep with guns, and there are advantages to that if SHTF.

    I believe in the right to bear arms. I believe that right can require reasonabile responsibilities. Right now, I don't care if some government official knows what guns I have, how much ammo I bought, etc. Could this change, sure, and history has many tales to tell.

    In reality, I don't have to worry about a world where the government is taking my guns away. I'll be one of the first people shot.

    We are talking about the sale of ammo.
    We are talking about the sale of ammo.
    We are talking about the sale of ammo.

    Now when I read that requiring permits could increase the cost (permit fees) I read a good point. That retailers will not deal with the bureaucracy and paperwork, and will just get out of ammo sales leaving it to speciality shops (thus increasing costs). I think thats a good point. Increasing cost to create a defacto prohibition, I'm with you in your concern. But that does not mean requiring some sort of permit to purchase ammo is 100% = to an attack on the 2nd.

    I would consider voting for such a permit, to purchase ammo, if worded correctly. One requirement would be a requirement on how long the law would take effect with out passing another vote. I would want concerns, like cost and availability, and others I have yet to think of, addressed.

    This would not solve all the firearm problems. This would prevent (not stop, but prevent) BG from buying ammo at retail.

    Would I vote for this in reality. No. I'm with you, just a trick.

    But as I said from the start, this poll makes us knee jerk. Most of us are just reacting to our stand by "feelings" and rationalisations to national conversation. Thats wrong.

  11. #70
    Member Array RevDerb's Avatar
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    If we keep giving up our rights, one at a time, one morning we'll wake up and have no rights whatsoever. I did not actually cast a vote because I don't care for the rationale behind the "yes" "no" options.
    Last edited by RevDerb; August 19th, 2008 at 08:25 PM. Reason: Continue thought
    ... whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. (Luke 22:36b NASB)
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  12. #71
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    I have a better idea, why not have a big letter F stamped on the drivers license of convicted felons? That way they are targeted instead of the rest of us.
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
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  13. #72
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    This whole "would you give up some rights to keep crooks from doing something" is a very naive and flawed thought process.

    The thugs sit back and do as they please, they don't adhere to any laws other than the ones that work to their advantage.

    The politicians out there use our "fear" and our need to feel safe against us. They introduce legislation that does nothing to impede bad guys, but it does impede us, the good guys in some small way. We give a little for this, and we give a little for that and eventually we have nothing left to give and we become no different than any other country in the world.

    Heres is a classic example of 'feel good" legislations that was passed by Congressman and Senators that are hostile to this country. The "Assault Weapons Bill". Here was a bill that banned a whole lot of guns because of the way they looked. It wasn't because they were an issue, even the FBI and the DOJ statistics admitted that they were actually involved in less than 1 % of all crimes. What it do for crime? Not a thing because the crimes that were committed with them were statistically irrelevant. What did they do for us the good guys?

    All of a sudden AK's that could be had all day long for 249 bucks were going for 800-1000 dollars. Magazines that held more than 10 rounds that went for 8-10 bucks a piece started going for 50-60 bucks. Who benefited from that?

    The useful idiots did much to advance the cause without realizing it. Like always, those that excel in ignorance were seen everywhere, at news conferences, on TV, on radio talk shows, behind pulpits and even in the White House trying to convince us that is was for our own good. Most of them couldn't even have an intelligent conversation or use accurate facts about what they were talking about. The standard so called "Assault Weapon" was made out to be a machine gun that anyone with the money could buy. Most of these fools had no idea that in many states you could legally own machine guns with the proper paperwork.

    People all over the country were saying that if it made the world a safer place to live that they would willing give up a little freedom. They didn't realize then and they don't realize today, that when you give a little today to seemingly solve a problem, and you give some more tomorrow to solve a different problem eventually there is nothing left to offer to solve another problem with out understanding that there will always be a problem, there will always be a crisis of some sort, there will always be a reason, imagined or not and with that the people will be asked to willingly give a little to help solve the problem.

    Its all a bunch of crap. I believe that most that frequent this board realize that, but there are a few here that would willingly give up something precious for nothing in return.

    I for one, am tired of it. I suppose its a reflection of the present rate of moral, spiritual and even physical decline that we are seeing in this nation today. Critical thinking skills are becoming non existent, what used to common sense is very uncommon, what used to be simple is becoming more complicated for most to grasp. It would seem to me that the implosion of this once great nation continues on at an accelerated pace with each passing day.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  14. #73
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    I don't really belive BGs buy ammo at Walmart. They either steal it (punks) or buy it by the case from Blackmarket Sources (terrorists and professionals.) Gun laws do nothing but hinder honest citizens, they have no effect whatsoever on BGs. ( And I am pretty much a Law and Order guy!)
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  15. #74
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    I have a better idea, why not have a big letter F stamped on the drivers license of convicted felons?
    Which one: the state-issued one, or the fake?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  16. #75
    762
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    either way, we can count on our wonderful elected leaders to draft legislation to make our hobby and sport more expensive of harder to do.
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