This is a discussion on Would you be willing to give up some of your rights within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by HotGuns It would seem to me that the implosion of this once great nation continues on at an accelerated pace with each ...
Yes, if it would help hinder BG from buying ammo
NO, I donít want the Government to know when I buy ammo
The reason you feel the country is imploding, there might be a id check for ammo. Those who disagree are commies, short sighted, emotional, etc. The anti-gun crowd thinks about you the same way.
Everyone points out the failure of the assault weapon ban. Typical line of thought, compromised by traitors. In the end, the ban is lifted, and harsher laws were prevented. You think the anti-gun crowd consider the now ended ban a victory?
Again, I'm not saying ammo id is the only solution. Just the knee jerk, end of the world, going to lose our guns reaction. Is this all the pro-gun crowd has to offer to the national conversation?
Well, not quite.The reason you feel the country is imploding, there might be a id check for ammo. Those who disagree are commies, short sighted, emotional, etc. The anti-gun crowd thinks about you the same way.
The willingness to give up something for nothing is a symptom of all of the above, not the sole reason. As for the "commies", some of them actually are,"short sighted", defiantly, "emotional,"absolutely,and as for what the anti gunners think of me, well, if they only knew, they would just quit and go home. You see, while most anti-gunners wring their hands and quiver in their boots and figure out how they are going to throttle people like me back, I am out teaching and education some of their own and turning them into what they consider traitors. I am in fact their worst enemy. I am one of those that offer the red pill or the blue pill. Believe it or not, with some education and what often takes a life changing event to see the error of their ways, many often choose to wake up and become responsible for their actions, and they quit worrying about what some one else does or thinks. Its a miraculous transformation sometimes. Others, like some here, will get a permit, and straddle the fence for awhile, sometimes going this way with the wind, or that way, never really knowing which direction to head in and even argue from a liberal thought process without even realizing it. That's OK, some people are a bit slower than others and it takes them a bit longer to understand, but eventually it will happen. It just takes time and hanging out on boards like this can actually help speed up the process.
Imploding? You bet.
Its nothing new though. The erosion of rights, of trading freedom for safety, rampant immorality, unchecked immigration, education that is meaningless, history that has been rewritten to match a modern agenda,of disarming the population bit by bit every bit of it, its all happened before. Every great civilization in the world, civilizations that were too strong to be taken, eventually collapsed from within.
But you knew that right? I'm sure you learned it all in school.
Oh.. one more thing.Is this all the pro-gun crowd has to offer to the national conversation?
I've actually participated in some of the "national conversation" in various capacity's. Theres is nothing "national" about it. Nationalism is dying. Its all about Globalism now. Fact, the Globalist don't want you owning guns. Period.
Why do you suppose that a certain faction has been trying for years to eliminate the private ownership of arms? It doesn't happen overnight. It happens bit by bit, not so much that you notice and throw a fit, but it happens slowly enough that one day you wake up with NOTHING as far as rights and wonder what in the heck happened.
I'm Redneck enough to be an "isolationist".
I ain't no "globalist" and all I care about is my country. If the rest of the world went up in smoke, I could care less as the rest of the world has nothing I want.
I just want to stay home, live in peace and die an old happy man. Part of living in peace is having the tools to repel those that would do me harm.
"...responsibility is the price that we pay for the great gift of freedom."
(or something like that from Thomas Aquinas).
This forum is about ammo, not the greatest problems of our country.
IMO our country has been on the road to ruin while at the door of opportunity since 1780's. The problems remain the same. Our problems have little to do with the lack of rights, it is the lack of willingness to do something of value with those rights while at the same time people are unwilling to consider an authority (be it God, society, or country) beyond their own point of view.
Call it fence riding if you want, but if there truely is a problem with BG buying ammo retail, I will not knee jerk. I want to hear the issues and try to come to a reasonable solution. Now I'm no authority, but if the only option you have to provide is as many guns and ammo a person can carry, I don't agree.
Responsibility and freedom.
The discussions of lost freedoms and rights, at least for me, can be boiled down to a few basic questions.
1. When I was a kid and stupidly broke in to a house and vandalized it, where were the Cops? They came and took a statement.
2. When my house was broken in to and things stolen from me, where were the Cops? They came and took a statement.
3. When I was jumped by a gang in HS, where were the Cops? They took a statement.
4. When I was removing a "No Skateboarding" sign off of a shopping mall wall, a Cop saw me and I got in trouble for it.
So with just a small example of things that have happened to me personally I can tell you that the odds are in favor of me needing to defend myself, and have the Cops take a statement afterwards.
With that said, every little thing that stands in between my peace and right to survive in the way I see fit for me and mine is a potential problem. Weather that problem be a BG, or a knucklehead politician telling me that I need to pay extra, register this and that, and prove I am capable of defending myself.
I need the Govt. fixing my roads and defending the US borders. I don't need them telling me that I can't defend myself or trying to force me out of the business of defending myself through increased regulations and prices.
"Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt
Excellent.I went to school, I read, I try to think beyond the talking points of political parties.
This post has little to do with ammo. This post has everything to do with giving up some liberty for safety, an equation that no matter what math you do it with, it always comes out wrong. Lets modify our habits to keep the bad-guys from abusing something. It doesn't work that way in reality and people that think it does are the problem with society and it is a great problem.This forum is about ammo, not the greatest problems of our country.
If you call giving up our rights the right thing to do, then you are correct, I am unwilling to do so. As for considering a higher authority God is THE authority. When society decides that God in not the authority then it is on the road to collapse, but that is nothing new, history already proves this.Our problems have little to do with the lack of rights, it is the lack of willingness to do something of value with those rights while at the same time people are unwilling to consider an authority (be it God, society, or country) beyond their own point of view.
Registration of ammo is so that a bad guy wont buy it is knee jerk.Call it fence riding if you want, but if there truly is a problem with BG buying ammo retail, I will not knee jerk.
Saying that you don't mind the extra restrictions on your self so that people that could care less about you or me or the law cant buy ammo is knee jerk.
You aren't hearing. You have already decided on what you think the "reasonable solution" is. Every dictator that has ever lived has used the words "reasonable solution". The problem with that is, that your "reasonable solution", is different than mine. Wars are fought over differences of opinions on to just what exactly that "reasonable solution" is.I want to hear the issues and try to come to a reasonable solution.
Where has any one mentioned that? Certainly not in this thread.Now I'm no authority, but if the only option you have to provide is as many guns and ammo a person can carry, I don't agree.
What you propose is neither responsible, nor does it advance the cause of freedom.Responsibility and freedom.
Thank for reading what I wrote.
Every argument you make quoting me comes down picking at the multiple meanings of the same word or looking at it from an extreme perspective to prove that A is wrong because worse case B could happen.
This is the same argument the anti-gun crowd makes when they say without aggressive gun restrictions someone could get murdered. Then some nut starts shooting up a school or his family. There theory is proved in their eyes. They try to prove A is wrong because B "could" happen.
Even what was intended as a general statement about people needing to consider an authority beyond their point of view turned into a definitive statement on "GOD." Am I to think GOD does not want there to be limits on ammo per the Bible? Everything has to be taken to an extreme. For example, let me pick apart your statement about GOD being the ultimate authority (and I will not even get into freedom of religion). GOD (if you are Christian, as I am) clearly stated he was not the ultimate authority on everything when He gave you free will. GOD provided the expectations: commandments, beatitudes, golden rule, etc. That leaves a lot that GOD would like you to figure out for yourself and own amusement.
Every argument does not need to be taken to an extreme. Sometimes the most likely needs to be considered. Even with gun laws.
I stand behind what I keep stating, knee jerk reactions do not serve the pro-gun crowd when it comes to the national (or global) conversation.
Not true.So modifying a habit, in reality, does stop the bad guy from abusing something.
Modifying a habit, or a law, or even your thought process dosent really affect how they act or even think because they just dont care. They dont care about the law, they dont care about me, they dont care about you. They only care about themselves. Some of them dont care that they will spend the rest of their lives in a jail cell, they just dont care.
The only thing I can think of that does stop a bad guy from abusing anything for certain s a bullet in the head.
Knee jerk reactions are pretty much the domain of anti gun crowds. We the pro-gun crowds pretty much react to what they say and do and propose to limit our freedoms.I stand behind what I keep stating, knee jerk reactions do not serve the pro-gun crowd when it comes to the national (or global) conversation.
What do they have to lose? Nothing. They will only act to compromise our freedoms, not theirs.