Would you be willing to give up some of your rights

This is a discussion on Would you be willing to give up some of your rights within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; the govt. will use ammo registration like UK used gun registration. it's just one step closer to total confiscation....

View Poll Results: Would you be willing to produce Id and background check to buy ammo?

Voters
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  • Yes, if it would help hinder BG from buying ammo

    16 5.73%
  • NO, I donít want the Government to know when I buy ammo

    263 94.27%
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Thread: Would you be willing to give up some of your rights

  1. #106
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    the govt. will use ammo registration like UK used gun registration. it's just one step closer to total confiscation.
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  3. #107
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    I can't think of a circumstance where giving up my rights would be a good thing.
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  4. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    I think you and I live in different environments. In all fairness, I have not considered that what you consider restrictive, in my neck of the woods, would be less restrictive. Not saying MI has all that bad of gun laws compared to say IL, but I'm in a different part of the world than you.
    You are way up North.It is a completely different mindset. The good thing about the Internet is that it gives people an opportunity to see how life in the rest of the country is. I think that's a good thing.I honestly believe that it is responsible for the momentum that the pro gunners have gained. IF you'll notice, its only been since the INTERNET has been around that the concealed handgun movement has taken off. It also serves to prove that people can and do exist without the needless restrictions that others have put up with for so long that they consider it normal, when in fact it is far from normal.

    As an example, there are some states that register their firearms, thankfully they are in the minority. We have had people here argue that all guns were registered without even considering that in most states they aren't.

    Others have been fed misinformation and lies for so long that they don't know any better. They get on the INTERNET and they all of a sudden realize the truth and it ain't nothing like they thought it was.


    Blanket statements on how all restricts should be dropped in my neck of the woods is just not realistic. For you, it is what you already have, what would you gain. In addition there is a different level and type of crime here when compared to there.
    It can be realistic. Look at Texas. Big city's,lots of population. Less gun laws, better self defense laws, it works and works well. As for crime, crime is crime. If there is a different level of crime, its because the crooks in Texas understand that they can and will be shot if they screw up. Where you are at, what can a crook expect? Cam he expect to get away with a crime, can he expect to survive it? Does he know that if you shoot him that you will be prosecuted more harshly than he will?

    Its all about mindset.
    .
    I had not considered this.
    Thats OK,we all have to start somewhere. At least you are "seeing" how others in this country think when it comes to gun control or giving up a bit of freedom for safety.

    I still believe there is a knee-jerk reaction that pro-gun has to "gun restrictions." This reaction causes ripples in your world, waves in mine.
    There in lies the difference. What you see as "knee jerk",we simply see as standing our ground.

    Here's the thing that lots of people don't understand.

    Its not about GUNS. Its about FREEDOM. Its about being able to fight back if need be and having the tools to do it. Its about not having to live in fear because the crime rate in your area is so high. It's about being able to stand tall and if you get killed in the process, at least you'll know that you tried to do your best, that you didn't die on your knees or curled up in the fetal position because you couldn't do anything to resist.

    Its about the freedom to exist and not have to be dependent upon someone else for the defense of yourself or your family. Anything,and I do mean anything, that hinders my ability to do so, whether it be gun registration or a tax on ammo, or a permit to own a gun is a step in the wrong direction as far as I am concerned.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  5. #109
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Some could argue you give up safety (more likely to have gun related injury) for freedom (right to bear arms). Just though I would stir up the wasp nest. By the time gun laws are that liberal here, the magic wand will wave, and all the criminals will become boyscouts.

    In the place I stand, with a Glock at the ready, gun regulations are a reality, and a one-sided mantra will not gain any votes (Glock part said real tough for effect and awe).

  6. #110
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    Gun control has nothing to do with guns. It's always all about control.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  7. #111
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    Some could argue you give up safety (more likely to have gun related injury) for freedom (right to bear arms)
    Sure they could. Some could argue that little green men from the moon are about to take over the world. That dont make it so.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  8. #112
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    From the late Jeff Cooper: "Safety is nice but it's not first. Life is first and life ... is not safe."
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  9. #113
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    From the late Jeff Cooper: "Safety is nice but it's not first. Life is first and life ... is not safe."
    Thats right.

    Thanis says that some people dont feel safe with guns around.

    Personally,I feel alot safer with mine on my hip. The more people I see with guns, the better I like it.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  10. #114
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    ...The more people I see with guns, the better I like it.
    You were not in my CCW class. There are many people I would not want to see carrying a gun. Some because of mindset, some because of skill.

  11. #115
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    You were not in my CCW class. There are many people I would not want to see carrying a gun. Some because of mindset, some because of skill.
    That I do not doubt.
    But remember, we all have to start somewhere. There is definitely a learning curve there.

    I have instructed many people that have never picked up a gun until the day they apply for their permit.
    I usually take those with no experience or those that don't feel confident of their abilities to handle a gun and separate them from the rest of the class and we teach them on a different part of the range from everyone else. I'll usually have anywhere from 6-12 people in a class of 50.

    We do things differently for them. We have no time limits, each person has individualized instruction and we start from the ground up with the basics. We will work with them as long as it takes.

    When they get their training certificate signed off, I have no qualms about putting my signature on their stuff.

    One thing that I do stress, is that the training that they receive that day is a beginning, and not an end. Skill with a handgun takes lots of training and practice. They understand that when they leave.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  12. #116
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    HELL NO!!!

    Won't help with anything but inconveniencing the vast majority of good guys!

    Watch out for ploys like this!
    YOU CAN ONLY HAVE TOO MUCH AMMO IF YOU'RE ON FIRE OR DROWNING!

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  13. #117
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tns0038 View Post
    ...My question is this: In an effort to make it hard for convicted felons to purchase ammo, would you be willing to give up some of your rights to allow the Government to require ID and a background check prior to buying ammo?
    No, because my forfeiture of my rights would be absolute and permanent, in exchange for making it less convenient for criminals - not preventing them, no guarantees that it would work, but my rights would be absolutely given up. Also, it would be a further infringement on Constitutional rights already infringed upon.

    The fact is, placing ammo under federal control, requiring ID and background check, would not be a reasonable restriction, because it implies much more than that. Ammo retailers would be burdened with additional processing and paperwork. Local, State and Federal fees would be assessed and passed on to the consumer. Purchases of ammo across the web would have to be restricted or eliminated. Purchasing ammo at gun shows would be restricted, adding to the already long lines for background checks. Criminals would start arranging straw purchases for ammo, adding to the problem of straw purchases. Burglary of ammo retailers would increase as a way to obtain ammo. The black market for ammo would increase. Gun control activists in Congress and in the private sector would consider it another step toward confiscation. So, it would further constrain law abiding gun owners, stripping them of more rights, while causing criminals a minor inconvenience, at worst.

    The idea that gun owners could somehow bargain with lawmakers for tax breaks or any other reduction in State or Federal revenue in exchange for giving up rights, is naive - especially when current background checks were implemented without offering any privileges or tax breaks in exchange for the infringement of Constitutionally-guaranteed natural rights, and without the People having any say in the matter at all.

    Agreeing to a "reasonable restriction" on our rights, as long as it was not a path to confiscation, would be an error, because all so-called "reasonable restrictions" on our rights to keep and bear arms are restrictions on the path to total confiscation. Once ammo purchases are under Federal control, barriers to access are in place, and the Federal and/or State governments can restrict or eliminate access, at will.

    I don't think this is a so-called "knee jerk reaction", just because I disagree with the proposal. I think my reasoning is sound and considered.
    - Tom
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  14. #118
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    To the OP...

    No, nope, nada, never...
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  15. #119
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    Hey, Thanis,

    as it stands now the score is 196 to 11.

    One hundred and ninety six people have indicated by voting, that they do not want to give up freedom for safety.

    Eleven people, think that giving up freedom for a little safety is the right thing to do, or maybe they really don't know.

    Have you gotten your answer yet? Have you found what you are looking for?

    Are you surprised or is it about what you figured? Tell us, inquiring minds want to know...
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  16. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Hey, Thanis, as it stands now the score is 196 to 11.
    Since you asked, considering the forum, 11 is a lot. I voted yes, as I have stated, it is an online poll, and the statements after the yes and no clearly justified, to me, a yes.

    So with just two choices. Yes, problem BG getting ammo and would hinder. No, I don't want big brother to know what ammo I'm buying. Contrary to what some might believe, with this thought process in mind, yes does not make me a crazy anti-gun liberal. Given the two choices offered, I'll stick with yes. Many of the reasons offered for the support of the "no" option were assumption based.

    Maybe some great assumptions, reasoned well, and powerful statements. To me, just felt like knee-jerk.

    In the real world, I assume a better worded ammo permit law would get 40% anti-gun support, 40% pro-gun support (and in contrast to what everyone is posting, I am generally counted in the pro-gun group). Then the other 20% would make or break. I don't think my % are fact, just talking generalities.

    Ok, now pick apart everything I have written and call me anti-gun. Same thing a leftist (sp?) would do if I were to suggest it is safer to have a gun then not.

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