Would you be willing to give up some of your rights

This is a discussion on Would you be willing to give up some of your rights within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok, now pick apart everything I have written and call me anti-gun. Same thing a leftist (sp?) would do if I were to suggest it ...

View Poll Results: Would you be willing to produce Id and background check to buy ammo?

Voters
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  • Yes, if it would help hinder BG from buying ammo

    16 5.73%
  • NO, I don’t want the Government to know when I buy ammo

    263 94.27%
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Thread: Would you be willing to give up some of your rights

  1. #121
    Senior Moderator
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    Ok, now pick apart everything I have written and call me anti-gun. Same thing a leftist (sp?) would do if I were to suggest it is safer to have a gun then not.
    I don't think you're anti gun. I just think you need to do some more thinking on the subject a bit and that is exactly what this forum is for. If you are thinking, that's a good thing.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  3. #122
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    I do not see how requiring a background check would hinder BG's from getting ammo?

    I does not hinder them from obtaining firearms, plus do you realize how much ammo is out in the US now?

    You say you are pro-gun what are your pro-gun views?
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  4. #123
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Would you be willing to produce Id and background check to buy ammo?
    Yes, if it would help hinder BG from buying ammo
    NO, I don’t want the Government to know when I buy ammo
    The way the poll is worded is misleading as voting Yes infers that it would actually work. I really don't think that everyone is as much against the theory of it as the practicality of it. If it would work then I think most would be for it but there is no reason to think that it will so it is just another exercise in futility and aggravation.

  5. #124
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    I do not see how requiring a background check would hinder BG's from getting ammo?
    The option states "Yes, if it would help hinder BG from buying ammo."
    Now will it, states yes, "if" it would. At the extreme sides of the thought process I am worried more about the BG having ammo then I am worried about my government spying on me. Thats as of todays date and per the confines of the poll.

    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    You say you are pro-gun what are your pro-gun views?
    Assuming you are mental sound adult (legal) citizen of the United States. In general, permits are ok, as long as they are reasonable.

    I'm short on time, but I feel as long as these cost do go beyond $200 (in 5 years), life is good. I "feel" permits should last at least 5 years.

    A good gun law should be written with year limitations. I would also like to see gun laws on a public (all legal adult citizens can vote) ballot at the state level. At the federal level, we live in a Republic, so as long as the law is not paper clipped to another or hidden from the public, such is life. I want the court systems to interpret the laws, not define them.

    IMO permits are a reality (given where you live) for almost every freedom. From birth, to marriage, to driving a car. Now as an example, driving requires a permit. While similar, requirements for a privilege may exist, this does not determine the same can be applied to a right like the 2nd

    GTG. Will read later.
    Last edited by Thanis; August 22nd, 2008 at 06:20 PM.

  6. #125
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    I want the court systems to interrupt the laws, not define them




    I think you mean interpret right?

    Not interrupt...although sometimes it does seem that it is what do.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  7. #126
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post




    I think you mean interpret right?

    Not interrupt...although sometimes it does seem that it is what do.
    Edit & corrected.

  8. #127
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    You know, around 50% of all legal marriages end in death. 97% of the time, studies have shown, stair injury and bath tubs injury occurred ONLY in households with stairs and bath tubs. Ammo related injuries happen 95% of the time, in 50% of crimes, that involve 100% of the ammo-related firearm deaths. In addition, 100% of the time, gun injuries occured where guns were involved.

    All fact!

    Can't believe you guys don't think ammo permits would be a good idea.

  9. #128
    Senior Member Array sui-juris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    No. Considering the background check did not stop them from obtaining the gun in the first place, what would make you think it would stop them from obtaining ammo?
    Hard to answer vs that argument. Clinches it for me and the article confirms it too..

    In reality, victim officers in the study averaged just 14 hours of sidearm training and 2.5 qualifications per year. Only 6 of the 50 officers reported practicing regularly with handguns apart from what their department required, and that was mostly in competitive shooting. Overall, the offenders practiced more often than the officers they assaulted, and this “may have helped increase [their] marksmanship skills,” the study says.
    I see this a lot where I work. Most of the LEO's get most of their first hands on w/a handgun right out of the Academy. And fewer practice on a regular basis...
    " Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master." George Washington

  10. #129
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    Can't believe you guys don't think ammo permits would be a good idea
    Why would we?

    there are 13 pages of responses and the poll is 95 % against you.

    If you haven't figured it out by now, I suspect you aren't going to.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  11. #130
    Member Array Harlan's Avatar
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    Thanis,
    Why don't we require an illegal drug permit or ID check?
    Wouldn’t that keep people from getting illegal drugs?

    Do any of the 10,000 plus gun laws keep BG’s from getting guns or do they just make black market gun sales a more profitable and attractive business.

    No law can prevent anyone from getting anything they want. Even Nuclear Weapons components are on the market.

    I can't believe any thinking person with any understanding of reality would see any value in an ammo permit!!!

    Like the BG’s would even notice! Yeh!
    YOU CAN ONLY HAVE TOO MUCH AMMO IF YOU'RE ON FIRE OR DROWNING!

    Benefactor Member NRA -- Life Member GOA -- Life (Christian) Member JPFO -- Card Carrying Minuteman

  12. #131
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    In America it has been shown that toilet paper causes colon cancer. 95% of all Americans with colon cancer have used toilet paper some time in their life.

  13. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    Can't believe you guys don't think ammo permits would be a good idea.
    Can't see how a system of non-benefit to citizens and a threat to liberty could be seen as a good idea.

    Show how it could (a) dramatically reduce the availability of ammunition for BG's; (b) NOT impact the ability of citizens to acquire self-defense capability; AND (c) NOT put the government in a strong position to ultimately turn off the flow of ammo anytime the hacks chose to do so. Show that, then I might be convinced that some good could come of it.

    As it stands, it's hard to see how the actual results would be anything other than a 180* opposite from the above, namely: (a) BG's won't hardly notice; (b) citizens WILL be impacted; and (c) the governing hacks will have yet one more nail in the coffin in place on the road toward total citizen disarmament, once they control the pipeline of ammunition.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  14. #133
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    You know, around 50% of all legal marriages end in death. 97% of the time, studies have shown, stair injury and bath tubs injury occurred ONLY in households with stairs and bath tubs. Ammo related injuries happen 95% of the time, in 50% of crimes, that involve 100% of the ammo-related firearm deaths. In addition, 100% of the time, gun injuries occured where guns were involved.

    All fact!

    Can't believe you guys don't think ammo permits would be a good idea.

    For the record, as it might not come off the way I wanted, this post was a joke.

  15. #134
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    ...Many of the reasons offered for the support of the "no" option were assumption based...
    To my mind "making it harder for criminals" to obtain ammo, or "hindering" their ability to obtain ammo isn't being effective, when the law abiding definitely lose rights, bear most of the scrutiny and the majority of the burden and all of the cost, and the criminals are not actually prevented from getting ammo. Hindering is not preventing.

    Looking back through all your posts in this thread, I see a great deal of assumption on your part, too, which I can document, if you require. That you dismiss our assumptions in favor of your own, no less contrived, assumptions, suggests this has not been a debate, but trolling on your part, since you declare our position invalid because it does not agree with your own. That isn't debate.
    - Tom
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  16. #135
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Take every argument you want from a pro-gun point of view. Sometimes you can even take the same "facts." Pro-gun or anti-gun, most people just spin a thought until it fits the world they want to believe in. Cognitive dissonance.

    This is were several of you will make me out as a liberal or anti-gun and let me know I'm the one with cognitive dissonance. Good for you. As long as you and like minded people agree you feel you have scored one for the team.

    I am guilty of cognitive dissonance. It is a great human failure. But I know I don't have all the answers. I don't have all the facts. I do have one solution for my life. I own guns (mostly for hunting), I practice, I carry.

    I would like the world to be a better place. If steps can be taken in that direction, good. For me, everything is on the table. Don't start the, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." quote-a-thon. You can also advance many wrongs in the name of liberty.

    It is an irony that so many who see this when it comes to something like free expression but can't see the possibility when it comes to the right to bear arms.

    The poll stated: Yes, would keep ammo from BG. No, because the gov will know how much ammo I buy. I'm sticking with the yes option. I value my life, my neighbors life, etc. over my feelings about privacy concerning ammo.

    I just bought 850 rounds of ammo tonight. Thats 550 / .22 LR, 100 / .357 SIG, & 100 / 9mm). At the Wal-Mart counter I was asked, "Are these for a handgun?" I could have lied. Instead I said, "Yup." He asked for ID, I provide. I then had a choice to make. Cash, check, or charge.

    I paid CASH.

    I always pay cash for all my handgun ammo. I almost never use cash for any other purchase. On a monthly, sometimes weekly, basis, I demonstrate clearly how much I want to let "big brother" know.

    In less 12 hours I will have used all 850 rounds. I feel good about my essential liberty when it comes to firearms (even if Wal-Mart asked to see my ID). Thank God I live in a country like the USA.

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