10MM

This is a discussion on 10MM within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I love the round. I wish Sig would make something like a 220 in a 10 MM. If they did, I'd buy it in a ...

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  1. #16
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    I love the round. I wish Sig would make something like a 220 in a 10 MM.

    If they did, I'd buy it in a heart beat.

    Even though I absolutey despise Glocks, I would'nt mine having the G20 just to round out my Glock 17,21and 23 sitting in the safe.
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  3. #17
    New Member Array Rick N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwhite75 View Post
    The 10mm is a fine caliber if you can handle it. It basically is a .40 cal long. The FBI issued the caliber for a while until the smaller agents and the females could not do well with it. That is how Smith and Wesson helped come up with the .40, or 10 mm short. Glock makes an excellent example in the model 29. If the jury convicted on caliber alone then that guy should ask for his money back from his defense attorney.
    The problem with that is that the Glock 29's barrel is too short to get the most out of 10mm; it compromises the muzzle velocity of the bullet to the point where you might as well carry something chambered in .40 S&W.

    A full-size Glock 20, however, would be a fine choice for an open-carry duty weapon (and if you can conceal a full-size Glock, by all means go for it), although you might want to consider reloading ammo because factory 10mm is quite expensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    A guy in Arizona was hiking and shot a derelict that attacked him with a 10mm,they convicted him because it was such a big powerful gun.I think ammo is expensive and not readily available everywhere you might go.
    Since that incident, they changed the laws in Arizona regarding self-defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Have you considered 9x23mm?

    Just as powerful as 10mm without the cost and your ammo as well as gun are still a '9mm' if and when it comes to having discussions about as much with a judge or jury.
    This is an interesting cartridge, but discussions with a jury in the aftermath of a defensive shooting would go much deeper than a superficial mention of the diameter of the bullets fired; some people argue against using reloaded ammunition for defensive carry on the basis of the fact that using hot, aggressive powder charges could look bad to a jury. Some say that you should only use the exact same type of factory ammunition used by the local police department, so that if you end up with an especially petty and vicious prosecutor, he can't claim that the level of force you used was excessive purely on the basis of the ammunition you used.
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Rick,

    9x23mm is and has long been commercially available from Winchester; Centerfire Handgun
    Others including Corbon with their 'DPX' brand also support this chambering.

    For SD/duty ammo I would not suggest nor personally use reloads.
    As to using what ones local PD makes use of that is hit or miss as the po-po use a given chambering(s) for all manner of reasoning including cost.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  5. #19
    New Member Array Rick N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Rick,

    9x23mm is and has long been commercially available from Winchester; Centerfire Handgun
    Others including Corbon with their 'DPX' brand also support this chambering.
    Okay, but that doesn't really address my concern, which is the extent that the type of rounds fired in a defensive shooting can often come under extreme scrutiny in a court case. The gun haters are extremely competent at using the language of hysteria to demonize certain types of guns, ammunition, etc (remember "cop killer ammo?"), and using a beatnik cartridge like 9x23 or even 10mm could be asking for trouble if your area takes a Napoleonic "guilty until proven innocent" approach to defensive shootings.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Your concern, as posted/stated, was based on reloaded ammo and the issues therein.
    Again there is no need to use reloaded ammo when one can easily buy commercial.

    As to the rounds history et. al. which I assume is what you mean above by "beatnik" and reference to 'cop killer' ammo, it like most every modern chambering was/is a purposeful evolution. As to demonization of ammo the chambering is 9mm. Everyone knows what a 9mm is. It's a household name and accepted as being normal. There would be very little reason and I'm willing to personally bet likelyhood that a investigation by a prosecutor would go into the ammo used so far as to discern that 9x23 is not 9x19, not that it matters at all.
    As to 10mm that round is not a household name nor accepted as being normal. As such with a jury of ones peers and neighbors who likely would be gun ignorant balancing 10mm against '9mm' (non-gun people have no idea that 9mm generally means 9x19 as opposed to 9x23 muchless understanding what the 19 or 23 actually mean) with an assumption that their knowledge of guns and bullets comes from TV news, movies, and MTV (!) it's a fair bet that life will be simpler and easier with the nine than a ten.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Even though I absolutey despise Glocks, I would'nt mine having the G20 just to round out my Glock 17,21and 23 sitting in the safe.
    Sometimes I don't agree with you (100%), but I have to envy your collection. You own more pistols you don't care for then I own.

    I always believe you should shoot a gun before you buy it. You are the guy to know, and shoot with, before ya buy.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    A guy in Arizona was hiking and shot a derelict that attacked him with a 10mm,they convicted him because it was such a big powerfull gun.I think ammo is expensive and not readily available everywhere you might go.


    The "hiker" shot a unarmed man, you could could say the dogs the guy that got shot where weapons, but he could have shot the dogs first, not a clearly justified shooting IMO, so i would not let that story stop me from a 10mm....

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Ditto/Agreed 40S&W. ^^

    That specific case was not specific to the chambering but to the totallity of all the events on the whole and the fact that the aggressor was unarmed _and_ deemed by the community to be a low threat individual (prior). Further the shooter himself had some sketchiness to his account and all that thrown into a mix bowl along with having a **** poor attorney resulted in his judgment.

    The guys gun being a 10MM was just one of 100 bits.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  10. #24
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    9MM, 10MM, .40, .380, .22 - Hell, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of any of it. I was shooting the .22 the other day and it was ripping holes in 3/4 inch plywood like I was shooting paper.

  11. #25
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    I always believe you should shoot a gun before you buy it. You are the guy to know, and shoot with, before ya buy.
    Thats always the best way to do it.

    And speaking of the 10mm...

    I had a woman well known to me that I was qualifying at the range for her CHL. Her husband,a good friend of mine, had bought her a 5 shot Taurus .38 special.

    For some reason, she had a hard time shooting it and just wasn't doing very good as she was all over the target. She mentioned that she could shoot her husbands gun better, which was a Colt Delta Elite 10MM.

    I told her it probably wasn't a good idea, but she said she liked it better and insisted on it. She I let her shoot it and she shot the center right out of the target and commented about how much easier it was for her to shoot. She did very well.

    When I hear about the increased recoil of the 10 MM and how its a bear to shoot sometimes, I am reminded of when this short, petit woman was able to shoot better with it than with the .38.
    One never can tell, until they have tried it.
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  12. #26
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    I recently went from 40 S&W to 9mm for all SD semi-autos. For company when I archery hunt, mountain bike or hike in the woods, I wanted at least a 357 magnum power in an auto loader with more rounds than a revolver. I picked a Glock 20 in 10mm (15 + 1). I believe, the best option in an autoloader is the 10mm. Unless you want a 10mm in a 1911 platform.

    As stated, in Glock the 10mm is same size as the 45.

    Ammo is expensive. Ammo cannot be picked up at walmart, etc. ...

    You can get a conversion barrel to 40 to shoot cheaper 40 for practice (I have mine from LoneWolf). Georgia arms has probably the cheapest 10mm fmj practice ammo available. And Doubletap or buffalobore are good sources for SD / Woods defense ammo. You can get other SD ammo in 10mm from Hornady or other big suppliers.

    You can get "watered down" 10mm SD ammo that is similar to 40S&W, and with a bigger/heavier frame and slide, would probably be lower recoiling than a glock in 40.

    And if you want to get a 9mm type, just get a 9x25 dillon conversion barrel from Lone Wolf. Better than 9x23

    I have nightsights, 22 lb recoil spring and steel guiderod. I have a monarch shoulder holster for it.

    I will use it mainly when out in the woods. I may take it out during the winter months when it is easier to conceal.

    I like the flexibility to use it in the bear woods (lower 48). And to put different ammo in it and have it ready for SD against 2 legged predators.

  13. #27
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    Rumor has it that Ted Nugent buys half of the 10mm ammo sold in the United States...

    Cheers! M2

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desperado View Post
    I happen to have a Colt 'Delta Elite' that is a "safe queen". It's simply too bulky, big and heavy for use as a concealed carry pistol. As a backup to a high powered rifle while hunting big game, it's perfect!! Full power loads are easily controlled.
    I carry a 5'' 1911 all the time. Also Colt Delta for over 10 years and it's not a safe queen. It's a flat shooting weapon.
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  15. #29
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    I've had a Glock 29 for about a month and love it. I don't think there is any difference in recoil between it and my Govt 1911. The 10mm is a more powerfull round (than .45) in a smaller package with higher capacity. Whats not to like?

  16. #30
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    I have been tempted to go 10mm just for grins, so i'd say if you want one go for it. However I think 45 is more practical (if that matters to you). On paper the lightweight 45 ballistics appear to be up there with the 10mm, and you can buy practice ammo anywhere at a more reasonable price.
    Dave

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