This is a discussion on Tubular Bullet within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have always liked the tubular bullet design like the "cyclone" in the pic and the PMC ultramag.
I wonder why the design was never ...
December 12th, 2005 10:44 PM
I have always liked the tubular bullet design like the "cyclone" in the pic and the PMC ultramag.
I wonder why the design was never picked back up by another company after PMC horrible marketing and strange caliber choice to release it in.
December 12th, 2005 10:54 PM
VIP Member (Retired Staff)
ann - welcome
This has partly the look of a truncated cone but also - bit like an RN with nose chopped off. I was not familiar with it. Appears from what I can see to have a brass jacket? Is that a .40 see here or am I looking at a 9mm?
I cannot tho see this being reliable for feeding with that sharp edge.
Can you tell us more about it?
Chris - P95
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December 12th, 2005 10:58 PM
How about a pic of the nose of the bullet never really seen anything like that
December 12th, 2005 11:18 PM
never seen anything like that before either. BTW, welcome.
December 12th, 2005 11:37 PM
1951 - 2011
Hello. Though in .38 Special +P, here is another picture of a PMC Ultramag cartridge. If memory serves, the bullet weighs 66 grains and gets about 1400 ft/sec from a 4" bbl. It is hollow all the way through and there is a nylon-like ball at the rear to seal the "tunnel" so that it can be fired. Below is my only picture of any PMC Ultramag.
I have no idea of the velocity of the round in other calibers, but suspect that it is the light/fast approach based solely on the .38 shown here.
This round hit low out of my revolvers, which is not surprising considering its light weight for caliber and high velocity for same.
I never "tested" the round on anything living, but seem to recall that gelatin tests were not that great compared to expanding bullets. This one doesn't expand from what I've seen.
I believe that it was withdrawn for a couple of reasons:
Concerns that it might punch the Level II Kevlar body armor used by law enforcement.
December 12th, 2005 11:45 PM
EOD - Initial success or total failure
December 13th, 2005 11:09 AM
1952 - 2006
I found these 'tubular bullets to be totally useless with one exception.
They have just the right inside diameter to fit a .22 blank into the nose. If superglued in when fired, on impact with the target, it detonates the rimfire primer via the sharp tubular mouth.
Makes for a heck of an impact.
And Welcome Ann
Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences
"I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ******** are and can kill them."
DE OPPRESSO LIBER
December 13th, 2005 01:43 PM
'Tis a strange looking round...BTW, you'll like it here.
noli nothis permittere te terere...
December 13th, 2005 02:02 PM
Hello fellow shooters;
This bullet I believe was called a "Cookie Cutter", I remember seeing them years ago. I believe they were a brass tube with a teflon wad at the base. Were designed for higher velocities and to expand quickly and not over penetrate. I think they pretty muched went to the wayside because of no marketing, and I do not beleive they would puncture a vest...
B.E. Master indoor and out
Distinguished Revolver #99
December 13th, 2005 02:15 PM
1951 - 2011
Hello. My own informal expansion tests with them as well as what I have seen from others indicates that they do not expand. None had any "base" left when removed from gelatin, water, ductseal, or "wetpack" and without it, pressure cannot build in the bullet itself to promote expansion.
December 13th, 2005 04:55 PM
The "Technical Name" was Truncated Cone Hollow Point as that Bullet Nose Configuration.
I guess that particular cartridge would be termed a truncated cone semi~jacketed hollow point.
Welcome ann. Thanks for registering!
December 13th, 2005 05:18 PM
The round in the pic is a 45acp "cyclone"goverment protype test round it is hollow all the way through and is a steel tube with a copper jacket it has a pusher disc at the bottom that falls away after the round is fired.This is the original design that PMC leased the rights from Abe Flatue the designer of the ring airfoil design.
These "cyclone" type rounds were used by the BATFE at waco and by other goverment types as their issue AP round and they are excellent AP rounds.
The 9mm cyclone rounds have a nylon cap to help stop the sharp steel edge of the bullet eating up the feed ramps in the MP5.
The "magic" of the tubular is not expansion of any type... but it is a excellent cutting round that dislodges tissue and cuts veins etc... as it goes through the target.
They are a very cool design that just seems to have been lost.
It may be because of the excellent AP ability of the ring airfoil design that the round has not been developed further for civilians.
Here is a pic of a 9mm prototype tubular "Pan Metal Corp" type all copper bullet,and some info on the "cyclones".
December 13th, 2005 06:31 PM
1951 - 2011
Hello. I'll bet they would be good on deflating tires. Some years ago when running one brand and type of JHP against another vs ball on inflated automobile tires, the old Geco "BAT" round deflated noticeably quicker than others. I don't recall by how much as those notes are hopelessly lost, but it was measureable and repeatable. Thanks for the information on the Cyclone.
December 13th, 2005 07:40 PM
Here is a tire that was shot by a GAS/BAT as a test,they punch nice holes as for the tubulars they would work excellent also IMO.
FWIW-Here is a pic of some old school BAT/GAS rounds used in a court case.The corroded BAT bullet on the far left is from a body found in the late 1980s it was in the body for at least 20days.
January 5th, 2006 01:49 PM
My understanding ( as always I can be wrong ) is that most of not all of the tubular ammo was not made out of lead. As such I believe that this type of ammo is considered " armour piercing" and as such is not legal to own/posses in US for the average person.
There is also quite a bit of discussion as to the amount of damage such a bullet will do to a living body since the major mechanism of damage is cut rather then crush. I personally have no idea.
\"Half of being smart is knowing what you are dumb at.\"
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