45 ACP for SD

This is a discussion on 45 ACP for SD within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Everyone has their own preference. Mine is Federal 230gr HST's in a Commander sized 1911....

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Thread: 45 ACP for SD

  1. #31
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    Everyone has their own preference. Mine is Federal 230gr HST's in a Commander sized 1911.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
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  3. #32
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    FYI

    Just a little factoid for all you 45 ACP fans.

    It seems there was a certain local LE Agency that carried a 230 Grain "standard pressure" JHP in their 45 ACP's. They were less than impressed with the exspansion of bullet, to say the least.

    They switched to a 230 Grain +P load and now call it "The Graveyard Load" as that's where most of the people shot with the load end up.

    Just to clarify, I don't depend on "one shot stops' and I'm not looking to kill anyone. I am just simply trying to select the best bullet for the job, that I can control. The fewer rounds I may have to fire the better. It's safer for the badguy and for society too.

    Biker

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array jframe38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txblumu View Post
    FMJ, JHP, BFB, it's a 45. Doesn't much matter what kind as to where it goes.
    Not true. JHPs penetrate and expand. FMJ could actually go thru a BG and maybe hit someone else. Not the best for SD.
    Go for the Corbon 185gr or the Federal, Speer Gold Dot, Win Ranger 230 grs JHP and you'll be better off.

  5. #34
    CDH
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    Many here might find the article linked below to be of some interest.
    It's a bit long, but it does delve deeply (and is focused) into the question posed in the OP.

    The article is reasonably up-to-date (2006) and I don't think there has been very much technological advancement in bullets since then.

    As a result of this article, I carry the Federal Hydra-Shok 230gr. in my stainless Commander, and it handles it reliably.
    One thing I liked about the author's take on the subject is that he stresses reliability over "stopping power", and I don't think the importance of that concept needs to be explained to anyone here.
    If it takes ball ammo to make your pistol run reliably, then that's what you "need" to carry it with (or get a different carry pistol).

    Long, but interesting article: Ammunition For The Self-Defense Firearm

  6. #35
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    I'd like to see a date on that last article. It says revised in 2006, but written when? No DPX and no Gold Dots? Silvertips, Golden Sabres, and Corbon (with Sierra) are all over it, but that's it for the more recent ones.

    Here's another "oldie, but goodie".
    http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm
    Last edited by FHBrumb; October 26th, 2008 at 02:18 PM.

  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array Squawker's Avatar
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    Personally, I use the Federal Expanding point FMJ. They load as reliably as ball, but expand like a hollow point. Also, there were articles last year about some hollow points clogging as they penetrated heavy clothing, which effectively turned them into ball ammo, something that just can't happen to the EPFMJ. Bottom line to me though is that while yes, there are certain hollow points that expand better than others, and I'll carry what I feel will give me the most reliable round that I can find which also will do the best job putting down the BG, the beauty of the 45 is that even ball ammo is an effective round. Granted, there are those that are better, but if the SHTF, and you find yourself having to carry your practice ammo, it will still offer excellent protection.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squawker View Post
    the beauty of the 45 is that even ball ammo is an effective round. Granted, there are those that are better, but if the SHTF, and you find yourself having to carry your practice ammo, it will still offer excellent protection.
    True, which is one reason i would never carry a 9mm, sure, in JHP its technically an "effective" round. I just can't believe that 9mm FMJ is going to stop anything.

    As far as heavy clothing clogging JHPs, most every one of the articles i've read has never seen that problem on the .45, just in smaller JHPs.
    The muzzle end of a .45 pretty much says, "Go Away" in every language.

    Fast is fine, accuracy is final. Learn to be slow in a hurry.

    "I never met a man that had been in a gunfight and wished that he had a smaller gun. Ever."

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
    Winchester Ranger SXT RA45T 230 JHP.
    Be aware that if you're going to deviate much from a standard 230gr load, you might have to change your recoil spring.
    i'm with AZ on this one great ammo feeds nice in my gun, but it lets you know when it goes BANG!!

    if not those i used to carry the taurus hex bullets 185 grain, not bad.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by laeckcrov View Post
    True, which is one reason i would never carry a 9mm, sure, in JHP its technically an "effective" round. I just can't believe that 9mm FMJ is going to stop anything.

    As far as heavy clothing clogging JHPs, most every one of the articles i've read has never seen that problem on the .45, just in smaller JHPs.
    check out The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration testing look for i guess it is episode#1 he uses both the 9mm and the 45acp, he even uses ball vs hollow point in 45.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by polardaddy View Post
    check out The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration testing look for i guess it is episode#1 he uses both the 9mm and the 45acp, he even uses ball vs hollow point in 45.
    I've read that, and it agrees with what i said. When he tested 9mm hollowpoint, he had an instance where the JHP didn't expand at all, but with the .45 JHP it always expanded to some degree, although it might not have been ideal. A 9mm JHP that doesn't even begin to expand is no more usefull than FMJ, and i wouldn't try to stop anything with 9mm FMJ.
    The muzzle end of a .45 pretty much says, "Go Away" in every language.

    Fast is fine, accuracy is final. Learn to be slow in a hurry.

    "I never met a man that had been in a gunfight and wished that he had a smaller gun. Ever."

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDH View Post
    The article is reasonably up-to-date (2006) and I don't think there has been very much technological advancement in bullets since then.

    As a result of this article, I carry the Federal Hydra-Shok 230gr. in my stainless Commander, and it handles it reliably.
    One thing I liked about the author's take on the subject is that he stresses reliability over "stopping power", and I don't think the importance of that concept needs to be explained to anyone here.
    If it takes ball ammo to make your pistol run reliably, then that's what you "need" to carry it with (or get a different carry pistol).

    Long, but interesting article: Ammunition For The Self-Defense Firearm
    I disagree. HydraShok is a 20+ year old design and has been substantially improved upon IMO by several more modern designs (HST, DPX/Barnes X-Bullet, EFMJ, etc.).

    I too carried HydraShok for years, but after learning about Federal HST I have moved on. Many comparison tests and real-world reviews claim HydraShok is prone to plugging and over-penetration, also to jacket separation/fragmentation. HST expands more reliably to a larger diameter despite plugging, penetrates well without over-penetration, and is designed to retain 100% bullet weight much like the Barnes X-bullet or a bonded Gold Dot. HST is all I carry now.

    .45ACP 230gr HST fired through denim-covered wet phonebooks:

    David

    Kimber Pro CDP II Colt Combat Commander Glock 26 GNS Ruger Mark III 22/45 Kahr CW9 (sold)

  13. #42
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    Somebody would tell me please what is the difference between Federal Hydra Shok (my current carry ammo) and Federal HST

    Where can I pick up some HST I have not find any online.
    I carry a gun cause I can't carry a cop.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHun View Post
    Somebody would tell me please what is the difference between Federal Hydra Shok (my current carry ammo) and Federal HST

    Where can I pick up some HST I have not find any online.
    HOLLOW POINT Ammo : Ammunition To Go
    The muzzle end of a .45 pretty much says, "Go Away" in every language.

    Fast is fine, accuracy is final. Learn to be slow in a hurry.

    "I never met a man that had been in a gunfight and wished that he had a smaller gun. Ever."

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHun View Post
    Somebody would tell me please what is the difference between Federal Hydra Shok (my current carry ammo) and Federal HST

    Where can I pick up some HST I have not find any online.
    There are numerous threads here as well as online comparisons describing the differences, so I won't regurgitate all that here beyond the general differences I mentioned in my post above.

    I buy my HST online. It can be hard to find, and your local gun shops likely won't carry it for civilian purchase -- Federal markets it for LEO use, and pressures their dealers into maintaining that policy. That's just a Federal policy though, there are no laws against it, and you'll find online dealers like AmmunitionToGo, Steichers, and Tactical Defense Solutions that will sell it to you (assuming they can keep it stocked). TDS is a forum sponsor and gives us DC folks a 6% discount using the promotion code DC. 50 rounds of 230gr .45ACP costs about $22 after discount, plus shipping -- and shipping is pretty high for the first box, so order at least two boxes to bring the cost down. BTW despite it being superior by most accounts, HST is usually cheaper than HydraShok!
    David

    Kimber Pro CDP II Colt Combat Commander Glock 26 GNS Ruger Mark III 22/45 Kahr CW9 (sold)

  16. #45
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    thanks Guys,
    I carry a gun cause I can't carry a cop.

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