Wide mouth vs. small mouth HP for SD ?

This is a discussion on Wide mouth vs. small mouth HP for SD ? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Took the wife to an all day intermediate level handgun techniques class yesterday.She is some what new to CC and training builds confidence. During class ...

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Thread: Wide mouth vs. small mouth HP for SD ?

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    VIP Member Array JAT40's Avatar
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    Wide mouth vs. small mouth HP for SD ?

    Took the wife to an all day intermediate level handgun techniques class yesterday.She is some what new to CC and training builds confidence. During class time the instructor stated that he prefers to pocket carry a light weight .38 revolver with ball ammo and focuses on shot placement for SD. I raise my hand and asked about over penetration with ball and why not use hollow points? To that he says if you are going to use HP's use ammo with a small mouth. Wide mouth HP's will loose effectiveness by cupping through heavy clothing layers. Did not address the penetration concern. This was new to me so I thought I'd throw it out there for feed back. Thanks.
    While people are saying "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, ... and they will not escape. 1Th 5:3

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    Senior Member Array ASSA9's Avatar
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    The .38 is low on power unless you go with +p
    this may have been what he was talking about
    I have a .380 bersa and carry ball in it for the same
    reason.
    Zoe: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?

    Book: "Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps."

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    "Wide mouth HP's will loose effectiveness by cupping through heavy clothing layers."

    And just how does he KNOW this to be a fact?

    The bullet's accurate placement is far more important than it's configuration. The relative diameter of the hollow point means diddly squat.

    For myself I'm not so concerned with over-penetration that I select my self defense ammunition with a view to diminishing penetration. My .38 revolvers currently are stoked with Remington +P 158 grain lead SWCs with no hollow point. If I carry a .45 ACP it is loaded with FMJ 230 round nose.

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    I found in crude testing that techniquelly, hollow points in clothing can limit penetration. The question is, because the damage was beyond the place the bullet was found, did they make a big hole and then the clothing drug the bullet back during the equal and opposite reaction that happens in all physics equations.
    Check out the box of truth and you will see the same results when they shoot vests and through clothing.

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    Member Array dmorris68's Avatar
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    Many would argue that the bigger issue, particularly for those of us who DON'T like ball ammo for SD, is that some HP designs are prone to becoming plugged with clothing, drywall, or other intervening foreign material and essentially becoming ball ammo. This was one of the major complaints about HydraShoks, among others, and was addressed in the design of the HST as a successor to the HydraShok.

    I agree with ball ammo in lighter calibers which are already at a disadvantage from a penetration perspective. However on larger bores or hotter loads, I would prefer JHP to achieve the proper amount of penetration and expansion *without* over-penetrating. I don't want the bullet to exit the body of a BG for various reasons, the most important being (1) secondary impacts beyond the BG, and (2) wasted energy. The energy that carries a bullet through a BG is wasted, I'd prefer every bit of energy be dumped in the target for maximum effectiveness.
    David

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    VIP Member Array JAT40's Avatar
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    Thanks dm68, I do understand about wasted energy, it's why I use 150g vs. 180g in my 308 for deer hunting. Good to hear about the HST designed to over come the plugging issue. I use the 165g HST in my .40, became alarmed at the instructors statement, he may have been unfamiliar with the new SD ammo.
    While people are saying "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, ... and they will not escape. 1Th 5:3

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    Member Array dmorris68's Avatar
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    Yeah, I switched from HydraShok, which I carried for about 10 years, to HST after seeing results from some of the tests comparing HST vs HydraShok. testing both with gelatin covered by layers of clothing, and various layers of wall material, showed that HydraShok was prone to late or under-expansion and over-penetration most likely due to plugging. HST expanded more consistently despite intervening foreign materials, penetrating to a good depth and also retaining ~100% of
    bullet weight due to the bonded jacket.

    If you look around at all the photos of recovered test slugs, HydraShok expansion and bullet condition varies widely, while HST seems to retain a more consistent "flower" shape no matter the caliber or medium fired through. 230gr .45ACP HST has been demonstrated to expand to beyond quarter-size, which is pretty impressive.

    HST is certainly not the only good quality SD ammo, but it's the one I chose for all of my carry weapons.
    David

    Kimber Pro CDP II Colt Combat Commander Glock 26 GNS Ruger Mark III 22/45 Kahr CW9 (sold)

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