LE Federal HST 230 gr. +P for carry...

This is a discussion on LE Federal HST 230 gr. +P for carry... within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have read several posts that state not to carry certain types of ammo because it could create problems if you are ever involved in ...

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Thread: LE Federal HST 230 gr. +P for carry...

  1. #1
    Member Array glock45's Avatar
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    LE Federal HST 230 gr. +P for carry...

    I have read several posts that state not to carry certain types of ammo because it could create problems if you are ever involved in a SD shooting.
    For exmple, I've read reloads can be a source of trouble and construed as premeditation...
    I bought a couple of boxes of Federal HST 230 gr. +p for my .45carry guns. In the box there is a large disclaimer that says For Sale to Law Enforment Only.
    Is this an issue??? I know a lot of the people in this forum and Glocktalk carry this ammo so I think there is no problem. However, it never hurts to check...

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    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
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    I guess it really depends on what state you are in and how laws are phrased. In my case being from Idaho it's probably not a problem, because we have very gun friendly laws.
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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I say forget about all that nonsense. Carry what you carry, and feel good about it. After all, when the time comes, you're counting on it to save your life. If something that's going to save your life is causing you to loose sleep, you'd be better off without it. "Premeditation"? You do carry a gun don't you? You've already chosen the path of not being a victim. IMO, your ammo choice seems to be something that might stand in the way of self preservation so long as you have second doubts. If the day ever comes you have to pull the trigger, you'll need to do so without hesitation. You now have one of two options......carry a different ammo, or feel confident in the one you do. I have plenty of boxes of ammo that state 'law enforcement' ammunition. If it ever comes down to the nitty gritty, I'd guess you could always hold the seller responsible.

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Since there is no law or restrictions in place on SD ammo, I don't see where it makes a difference. It all depends on the DA that gets your case, and the circumstance surrounding a shooting if it happens.

    Drugged up known MS13 gang member coming at you with a Machete and you pump 8 rounds of FMJ com and they all pass through making a nice hole in the thick brick wall 1 block behind him...Thankfully you did not hit anyone else and they all stopped in the wall. The DA may call it a justified shooting, he may not. He may call 8 shots excessive, but that is what it took to stop the threat.

    A random mugger in a parking lot with a fixed blade knife, you pump 2 rounds of HST into him, and there they stay (+P might go through). The DA may call it a justified shooting, he may not. He may call HST or any other expanding bullet excessive.

    The print on the box means squat. You acquired them through legal, open to the public means.
    Sticks

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    Senior Member Array coffeecup's Avatar
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    Dont give it a second thought. Heaven forbid that you have to draw and fire on anyone,but if you do ,it seems to me that a sound court arguement could be--"Well I could have carried a S&W.500 mag. Instead I opted for something with a lot less power I am NOT Dirty Harry. Just an ordinary guy trying my best to protect myself and my family and stay within the laws of this state. I figured that if the ammo in question is good enough for law enforcement, it should be good enough for me."

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    jfl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    I say forget about all that nonsense. Carry what you carry, and feel good about it. After all, when the time comes, you're counting on it to save your life. If something that's going to save your life is causing you to loose sleep, you'd be better off without it. "Premeditation"? You do carry a gun don't you? You've already chosen the path of not being a victim. IMO, your ammo choice seems to be something that might stand in the way of self preservation so long as you have second doubts. If the day ever comes you have to pull the trigger, you'll need to do so without hesitation. You now have one of two options......carry a different ammo, or feel confident in the one you do. I have plenty of boxes of ammo that state 'law enforcement' ammunition. If it ever comes down to the nitty gritty, I'd guess you could always hold the seller responsible.
    That is very true !!!

    Any time you start thinking about what you should NOT do in a SD situation, you put yourself in a negative mindset that can cost you a second or two which could equal eternity ...

    There has been the same discussions about choices of calibers, guns,etc.
    My opinion is that I want the best (legal) weapon to stop the threat NOW. My goal is to survive the encounter; I'll deal with the consequences later.
    When you are dead it is for a loooong time.
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

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    Member Array bonehead's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be so concerned with the "Law Enforcement" label rather than the +P aspect. From the little I've read on ballistics, the .45 ACP round in it's 'non-P' variant has more than enough stopping power (perhaps a different story with 9mm and 40SW). My concerns over .45 +P would be overpenetration and excess wear and tear on the firearm.

    That being said, I have a box of Buffalo Bore and Hornady TAP .45 ACP 230g +P sitting in my office waiting to be tested
    HK45c V1

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    2 Points

    First several LEO's I know have all repeated the same phrase; "Better judged by 12 than carried by 6". I have chosen to take their advise to heart and will protect my self and my loved ones now and worry about the lawyers later.

    Secondly, not to insult Ramrod, I will take all responsability for my actions. If I choose to purchase, carry and ultimately use ammunition marked law enforcement only I WILL NEVER defend my actions by blaming the seller, manufacturer, or anyone else. Sorry for the rant but it really bothers me when people lack the fortitude to stand up and take responsability for their actions; especially at the expense of everyone else.




    Searn

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfcslr View Post
    First several LEO's I know have all repeated the same phrase; "Better judged by 12 than carried by 6". I have chosen to take their advise to heart and will protect my self and my loved ones now and worry about the lawyers later.

    Secondly, not to insult Ramrod, I will take all responsability for my actions. If I choose to purchase, carry and ultimately use ammunition marked law enforcement only I WILL NEVER defend my actions by blaming the seller, manufacturer, or anyone else. Sorry for the rant but it really bothers me when people lack the fortitude to stand up and take responsability for their actions; especially at the expense of everyone else. Searn
    It's hard to portray sarcasm on the internet sometimes. Agreed...that part could have been left out.

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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    The way I see it, if its marked "Law Enforcement Ammo" then it must be good stuff, right? I mean, it would be "safe", "reliable", and certainly not prone "unnecessary suffering" on the behalf of the recipient party.

    So, the best argument is that "if the police use it it must be the best ammo available".
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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I use the 45 ACP 230 Grain +P JHP HST's in my 1911.

    I am not worried about it being a LEO ONLY load, as that is just a company policy, and a company I don't work for at that. As far as the load being a hollowpoint, that is the bullet design least likely to go through an attacker and injure a third party.

    Now, as to the +P designation. It's what I use, and no, I am not fearing that it will create a through and through wound. That may happen with any jacketed hollowpoint, but not as likely as with FMJ's. There are reports of the non +P HST performing as remarkable as all the "hype".

    Let's face it, all handgun rounds are "marginal at best". Therefore I want to try and give myself every advantage I can that best minimises danger to me, third parties and even the perpetrator.

    Biker

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    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
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    The print on the box means squat.
    It's the manufacturers way of trying to cover themselves from being sued by some random
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    Senior Member Array BeefyBeefo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    I wouldn't be so concerned with the "Law Enforcement" label rather than the +P aspect.
    +1 I was going to say the same thing.

    I don't think the fact that the box says "Law Enforcement" could be used against you any more than the fact you're using +P .45ACP rounds. I don't personally see the need for +P.45, but to each his/her own.

    I wouldn't worry about it....

    -Jeff-

  15. #14
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Well, I don't make a habit of posting multiple times in the same thread, but I'd like to address the +P aspect as it may very well play an important role when using shorter barreled pistols for maintaining velocity, and we might remember what sort of impact velocity has toward energy in terminal ballistics.
    I don't always carry +P for the 45, but then again...I don't always carry the 45.
    http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html

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    Member Array glock45's Avatar
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    Great posts guys....
    To those who think I might hesitate at a critical time due to the ammo in my gun.... No hesitation, just checking on my carry ammo.
    I might get a couple of boxes of the non +p flavor. The +p makes it hard to double tap accurately, probably having regular, +p, regular, +p and so on in the magazine would help when firing follow up shots in groups of 2.

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