illegal ammo still around?

illegal ammo still around?

This is a discussion on illegal ammo still around? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Over christmas my girlfriend's grandpa was sawing me his collection of guns and letting me handle them and when we got to his colt government ...

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Thread: illegal ammo still around?

  1. #1
    Member Array mr. orange's Avatar
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    illegal ammo still around?

    Over christmas my girlfriend's grandpa was sawing me his collection of guns and letting me handle them and when we got to his colt government he dropped the mag and emptied the chamber and saw a really neat bullet. it hald a nickel(or some other silver metal) casing and a black JHP. when i asked what it was and where i could find them he gave me a smirk and said "you can't buy em thats for sure" then proceeded to tell me that they were the teflon coated "cop killers" from the Lethal Weapon days.

    i thought all that stuff would have been used up by now, but are bullets like "cop killers" and black talons still floatin around?
    Guns don't kill people, Husbands that come home early kill people.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Black Talon Or the Cop Killers sure there still around think i got couple boxes for 300 mag just havent shot them up .

    Also there still out there in Winchester Ranger SXT rounds or and Ammo marked SXT secret is dont call um black talons dont paint um black and make the bullet better than the black talons with a name like SXT and bam no body screaming there heads off about cop killers..


    SXT= Supreme Expansion Technology

    Same thing it says on my Black Talon box except it says


    Black Talon SXT and have the little claws coming out

  3. #3
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    Oh yeah - the old color deal!! Not only is beauty in the eye of the beholder but so it seems too is evil!

    Let a bullet be black instead of shiny copper and it almost by default it will get the ''killer'' label

    The modern ammo choices really still give us pretty much all the potential ever needed - possibly the only illegals which might have use in some instances are the AP versions.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  4. #4
    Senior Member Array CombatEffective's Avatar
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    I've got a bunch of it in 9mm. Some is the older style with the black bullet. Some is the newer stuff. The joke is that SXT really stands for 'same exact thing". There's nothing illegal about it here.
    Shooters' Legacy

    Special sections for S&W and Ruger

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    There is no such thing as a "Cop Killer" bullet. No normal handgun bullet will penetrate a good vest. Especially a HP. Teflon...? Now an AP round. That's different.---------

  6. #6
    New Member Array ChefRski's Avatar
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    Urban Myth's

    One of the reasons I like this board is to help others learn more about our love our sport our rights. Before taking my classes for Concealed carry I too thought that Black Talon's AKA Cop Killers were illegal and there was a ban on them. Little did I know that was all BS propped up by a liberal media and urban myths.
    In fact if you do a basic google search on the subject you'll find out exactly how this myth spread like a virus.

    Winchester Black Talon Revisited (excerpt from free republic.com)

    There appears to be continuing confusion surrounding the different versions of the Black Talon bullet, its legality for possession by private citizens, as well as its alleged "cop-killer bullet" armor-piercing capability.

    Here's the lowdown:

    The second generation version of the original Black Talon SXT bullet. The cartridge consists of a copper-jacketed bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The bullet has six serrations on its meplat, and six talons. Ranger Talon is packaged in boxes of 50 cartridges marked "Law Enforcement Ammunition."

    There is no Federal law that prohibits a private citizen from purchasing or possessing any of the Black Talon bullet variants. Additionally, there is no Federal law, which forbids private possession and use of "law enforcement" handgun ammunition, except specifically defined armor-piercing handgun ammunition. Black Talon, Ranger SXT and Ranger Talon do not meet the criteria for armor-piercing handgun ammunition as defined by Federal law. However, there may be State or local laws that ban private possession of Black Talon and its variants.

    The negative media frenzy of late 1993 produced untrue assertions that Black Talon was an armor-piercing "cop-killer" bullet. We've fired both 9mm and .40 S&W Black Talon bullets into threat level IIA soft body armor and the armor easily stopped the bullets. The "armor-piercing" myth may have originated from the markings used on certain military small-arms ammunition. U.S. military cartridges with a black painted tip indicates the bullet is armor-piercing.

    (Federal Nyclad ammunition is often mistaken as armor-piercing ammunition too, due to the blue-black nylon coating on the lead bullet.)

    The black Lubalox coating on the Black Talon bullet is meant to reduce in-bore friction and chamber pressure. Once the bullet leaves the muzzle, the mission of the coating is completed. Lubalox does not give the bullet any special property that allows it to blast through police soft body armor.



    Great question, and great answers.
    Amendment II

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.



    ChefRski

  7. #7
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    cop killer rounds. Funny how the media causes even some gun owners to believe their B.S. Black Talons were voluntarily pulled. My thought was for 1. good PR. 2. increase sales
    Also my understanding was nyclad bullets were for a decrease in airborne lead particles for indoor shooting.

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    I have about 115rds of the origional(Black Box) Black Talon ammo in .44 Mag(250gr). Also about 100rds. of the same in .45ACP(230gr.) My huntin' buddy uses the 200gr.,10mm loading in his Javalina. My .44Mag and his 10mm are used exclusively for wild boar(hogs). They do a great job. They will penetrate completely through the bigger hogs. The energy transfer is tremendous. My CC load that I carry in my Kimber is the .45ACP loading. I have pulled a bullet and they(as advertised) are truly a "reverse taper jacket". The jacket is very thick around the HP cavity and it gets thinner as it goes down towards the base. The BT line is the only bullets that I have ever herd that were built in this manner. As far as I know,all the BT bullets are designed in this manner. The Ranger line and the SXT line of bullets might have the jacket designed in this manner but can't say for sure. These bullets were also given a bad rap by the doctors in the ER's. When they were diggin' around in the wounds of BG's the "Talons" would cut their rubber gloves. They also would make comments as to the massive trauma that these bullets would cause. That's what made me stock up on them. To all you doctors out their.... THANKS --------

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    The original BTs are what I carry in all my guns (9mm,10mm & .45)

    Actually there were 2 bullets dubbed "cop killers, 1 was indeed Teflon coated, to hold down on lead splatter in indoor ranges, just so happened to penetrate IIA vests. When the media got hold of it all the cops (FBI; DOJ, etc) begged them not to release the info for 2 reasons; 1} it highlighted that cops were wearing vests and there was the fear of more head shots (which happened) 2} The cops had been using the bullets to put down professional armed robbers who were wearing soft armor more and more and didn’t want the ammo taken off the market or known it existed. Well it was too good a story and it went to press and there was federal legislation about handgun ammo capable of penetrating vests.

    Well the “COP KILLER” tag worked so well that when the media decided to go after Black Talons they dredged up the “COP KILLER” moniker again and attached it to the BTs.

    So the Teflon vest penetrater in Lethal Weapon and the BTs are different bullets the press smeared with the same emotional tear jerker moniker.

    BTW...WW pulled the BTs off the market to prevent setting a precedent of outlawing a bullet design fearing (do you doubt it) that it would only be the first of probably all HPs being labeled and outlawed.

  10. #10
    ann
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    COP KILLER....I am RIPPING my hair out Will This BS never DIE !

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
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    had a few boxes of Black talons come thru the store last week...........I scooped em up real fast.... LOL..........also those Geco B A T bullets are in my posesson as well
    Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array David III's Avatar
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    I have a box of some old Winchester 38 Special pre-Ranger ammo where the box is marked "Law Enforcement Only" - it's not illegal, the box is just neat looking. (I guess Winchester could add in small print "because we demand that distributors only sell this to law enforcement dealers or we'll get really mad and complain").
    Thinking about Black Talon, etc, I would really like to have a couple boxes of the old Super Vel ammo -- had all kinds of warnings all over it about Police Only and everything else to make you think that the feds would show up in helicopters if you touched it.
    I will say that the Super Vel stuff was loaded extremely hot.

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    Yeah, CorBon and Double Tap are the SuperVel's of today. Some really HOT ammo.--------

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ann
    COP KILLER....I am RIPPING my hair out Will This BS never DIE !

    Its Kind of the the porcelain Glock 7 it'll never go away

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    Your right Bud,It'll never go away.That's why I still hate the term"assault rifle". HUH ?? What the hell is that?? --------

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