The deal with +p
This is a discussion on The deal with +p within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This~~~~~~~~> "It will also be harder on the gun. Even if the gun in question is rated by the manufacturer to be suitable for +P ...
January 16th, 2009 08:46 AM
I sort Of Disagree With Part Of That
This~~~~~~~~> "It will also be harder on the gun. Even if the gun in question is rated by the manufacturer to be suitable for +P ammo, the gun will wear out sooner."
Naturally if you shooting lots of +P you should install a fresh recoil spring more often or absolutely move up to a heavier weight spring.
Most modern semi-automatics can handle +P without any accelerated wear.
The 1911 especially.
I remember one old gun test where steel .45acp cases were used and the .45acp was loaded all the way up to .44 Magnum pressures and velocity with no undue wear to the firearm.
There WERE some problems associated with the steel cases sticking in the chamber. That problem was solved by lightly Teflon coating the cartridges.
Remember that +P semi-automatic in .45 acp can only withstand so much increased pressure because normal cartridge brass in .45acp is comparatively weak in the case wall. Too much pressure and the cartridge case walls will blow out upon extraction.
SO......any +P or +P+ loading in .45acp is still well within pressure limits of what the Colt 1911 can handle without suffering any physical damage to the barrel, slide, or frame at all.
January 16th, 2009 08:46 AM
January 16th, 2009 11:40 AM
ok good read,but see that still didnt answer my question. I know what +p is, and why its better in some cases, and all of that. But i just simply want to know what exactly do they do to make the round have more pressure. I would think more powder but that cant be right if there are two rounds with the same gr. but one is +p and the other is not. Sorry im just really curious about this, and everything i search for gives me pretty much what that article describes.
January 16th, 2009 11:50 AM
It's either the amount or type of powder inside the cartridge that increases the pressure. The grain weight you see on the box has nothing to do with charge weight, only the weight of the projectile.
Originally Posted by Twiggy
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January 16th, 2009 01:17 PM
ahhh gotcha, ok that makes sense
Originally Posted by cvhoss
January 16th, 2009 03:07 PM
I reccomend you shoot some of what you are considering to determine point of impact vs. point of aim. Preferably from a sand bag rest or similar.
Different bullet weights can and will to some degree alter point of impact for a given point of aim.
The difference may be small but you need to know and possibly adjust your sights.
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." - Thomas Jefferson
January 16th, 2009 04:40 PM
Not sure if this has been addressed yet. Shorter barrels do not see the same increase in muzzle energy as their longer counterparts. The shorter tube means that the extra powder in the +p cartridge will burn beyond the muzzle and will not give the bullet the extra velocity that it would if fired from a longer barrel. The +p in short barrel will raise the velocity a bit but not a huge amount. a 30 fl/lb gain is not significant enough a gain to go +p. Not enough in my mind to accept the downsides which are blast, recoil and longer shot to shot times.
When can all agree that ALL handguns are under powered AND we can agree that their utility comes from being concealable, therefore readily available, we can agree that flavor of ammo doesn't matter as much as shot placement. Cartridges with lots of grunt also mean increased muzzle rise, fewer rounds and increased shot to shot times!
Experience abroad has shown us that most BGs needed to be shot between 3-5 times with a rifle (much more powerful than any common handgun)before they changed their behaviors. The Pete Soulis (SP?) saw a BG hit 22 times (17 center mass) with reliable .40 HP ammo before the fight was over.
Shot placement is achieved best by having a reliable, shooter friendly platform that we have trained the heck out of.
Sorry guys! Rant off. I just see so much emphasis placed on flavor/brand of gun/ammo that we over look what I consider to be the most important issues.
"The liberty of the individual is no gift of civilization. It was greatest before there was any civilization." Sigmund Freud
January 16th, 2009 07:34 PM
i never mess w/any +p or +p+ i don't fell like its necessary
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.”
― Thomas Paine
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