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Best .40 Caliber Self Defense Round

72K views 60 replies 54 participants last post by  Helix 
#1 ·
Everybody I know is pushing 135 grain rounds for .40 cal. I tried to buy some yesterday and the gun store is sold out.

I'm interested in opinions about 135 grain vs. 165 or 180 for self defense.

Thanks.

M
 
#3 ·
My personal preference is the 165 grain loads (155 grain in 2nd place). In the 40, I find that the 165s offer the best combination of bullet weight for penetration and velocity for increased energy.

Hoss
 
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#7 ·
Personally I load Magsafe 84 grain defenders. That sounds super light but before you scoff take a look at the specs for the stuff:

http://www.magsafeonline.com/prices_specs.jsp


Their .40D round leaves the barrel at 1800 fps and 604 fpe. It's a different round that is highly lethal. Plus the round ricochets less than traditional rounds. They are WAY too expensive to shoot up at the range but I use them as my SD carry rounds.

Everyone has their favorite and is entitled to carry the round that makes the best sense to them; these are expensive but as a SD round I am willing to put up with the expense to make the BG go away quickly. :) I found that these are faster and hit harder than any JHP I could find.
 
#8 ·
My favorite carry ammo is 140 gr. Corbon DPX. For the range 180 gr. Winchester white box.
 
#9 ·
According to the FBI study on round lethality in LE shootings, what you want to shoot is a heavier grain JHP or some other variation that expands on contact. Ideally you want 12 inches of penetration - lighter grain loads may have more FPE in some cases but also expend that energy faster in the body due to lighter weight. The heavier loads will penetrate the full 12" and then some in most cases. I personally prefer the Gold dot in 165 or 180 grain - since my practice ammo is 180 grain I lean more towards GHP in 180.

The water jugs were cool and all, but that demonstration has absolutely nothing to do with what those rounds will do in the human body.

Just my 2 cents
 
#24 ·
The water jugs were cool and all, but that demonstration has absolutely nothing to do with what those rounds will do in the human body.

Just my 2 cents
Well worth more than 2 cents.

The OP seems to be talking or asking about one shot stop.
Ask any deer hunter about "one shot stop 'em' in their tracks"

One shot? In a SD scenario? I think not.

Believing your (whiz bang 1.25 x orig size, symmetrical pedals, 135 gr do it all, $2.29 per rnd" will incapacitate a threat with one shot could get you killed.

Believing in, relying on or delaying your follow on shots wondering what the effect of the first rnd is may have similar results.

There are many SD rounds available..find one that shoots well from your weapon. If you train properly, wondering about which round is "best" will no longer be a question.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Love the Strasbourg Tests of hate them (google it and you will find proponents and opponents), at least they looked at incapacitation time from a lung shot (i.e. a chest shot) rather than kinetic energy transfer for the theoretical "stopping power." It's not about putting a BG on his keister; it's about eliminating his ability to harm you or others.

I am personally not a fan of 12" penetration because the average BG is not 12" thick! I don't want an exit wound because in AZ any collateral injury is the responsibility of the shooter, even if the shot is legit. Yes, I know that ballistics do not travel in a straight line through flesh; still I am concerned with too much penetration just as with too little. While a heavier and slower round will tend to spread better than a lighter faster round it still takes a long time relatively to spread. My first thought is to find a round that incapacitates a BG as fast as possible. Energy alone won't do it; the fact that counts IMAO is time from shot penetration to incapacitation.

So I want a round that is going to create a gaping wound in about 4-8" of tissue...just enough to rip a lung apart or with great shot placement ruin the heart. If the shot is a gut shot I want damage to multiple organs not simply penetration. I know that sounds gruesome but it is what I am looking for if I have to pull the trigger. Yes, I realize that I might need to put a shot through an arm or something of the like, realizing a need for a little more penetration. That is why I would not put a single shot downrange in SD; multiple shots give the best chance for a center of body mass shot.

So that is why I like the Magsafe rounds. They incapacitate really fast comparatively, which is what I want in a round.

Nothing against other rounds AT ALL, and I CERTAINLY understand why LEO use JHP's instead. I wouldn't want my tax dollars going to a couple hundred of those for every cop in the force in my state every year. :) That'd be some serious bucks! LEO studies have to consider cost effectiveness as well as incapacitation; they won't even consider rounds that are too expensive because they are not an option for LE budgets, which is perfectly understandable. For my SD round, though, I am willing to spend the money.

No, I am not hawking their stuff either. :)

I have also heard that the Cor-Bon rounds are really good, but I have no experience with them.

I am going to check out the other rounds posted here too and see what I find. Never hurts to keep looking for a better round, right?!?
 
#59 ·
OP- it is well known that heavy for caliber bullets penetrate better. 180 grain.

Let us dispel some misunderstandings
I am personally not a fan of 12" penetration because the average BG is not 12" thick! I don't want an exit wound because in AZ any collateral injury is the responsibility of the shooter, even if the shot is legit. Yes, I know that ballistics do not travel in a straight line through flesh; still I am concerned with too much penetration just as with too little. While a heavier and slower round will tend to spread better than a lighter faster round it still takes a long time relatively to spread. My first thought is to find a round that incapacitates a BG as fast as possible. Energy alone won't do it; the fact that counts IMAO is time from shot penetration to incapacitation.
By "spread" I assume you mean expand. I can tell you a body is enough distance for a JHP a to fully expand.
Next, the 12" gel test does not equal 12" of body tissue. It is simply a calibrated density for consistent testing. How much body tissue can you guarantee a defensive bullet needs to penetrate? Are all shots straight on a standing attacker? What if they are turned? Can your round penetrate an arm?

So I want a round that is going to create a gaping wound in about 4-8" of tissue...just enough to rip a lung apart or with great shot placement ruin the heart. If the shot is a gut shot I want damage to multiple organs not simply penetration. I know that sounds gruesome but it is what I am looking for if I have to pull the trigger.
It sounds like you are looking for a frangible bullet
So that is why I like the Magsafe rounds. They incapacitate really fast comparatively, which is what I want in a round.
Oops, there it is! Frangible rounds are a bad idea. There is no way you can ensure a round can reliably penetrate to lethal depth, yet not exit most targets. Overpenetration is a myth. Hunters know that through and through penetration is the most effective game stopper. Most rounds fired in self defense will miss and continue past the intended target with 100% retained lethal energy. Frangible ammo does not remove your responsibility of knowing what is down range and ensuring a safe backstop. You first want reliable penetration, then reliable expansion. Google x-Rays of frangible ammo in an arm or rib cage. The only stopping power of these rounds is the psychological factor which is inconsistent at best.

LEA agencies use JHP a because they are the most reliably effective, not as a cost saving measure. That argument is absurd.
 
#16 ·
I use the HST's, these are all good;

.40 S&W:

Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP (53961)
Speer 165 grain or 180 grain Gold Dot
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Federal "Homeland Defender" 180 grain HST
Federal Tactical Bonded 165 grain
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
 
#17 ·
MinistrMalic brings up alot of good points, something to think about for sure. I dont worry to much about over penetration if I am getting good, or even crappy, body shots - by the time a round has penetrated the 8"-14" of a BG's torso anything coming out the other side is unlikely to have enough energy to even pierce the skin of another tgt. Now if you get hits on the upper shoulder of a thin target.... then you minght have to worry IF the round goes clean through and doesnt hit any bone.

I will certainly look into the MagSafe rounds because I like to learn about anything new that could potentially do the job better!

Semper Fi!
 
#18 ·
For what it is worth, American law enforcement has two ISO 9000 rated laboratories (I believe that;s the correct category), one run by the FBI for the DOJ and one ran by ICE for DHS. Both conduct testing and evaluation for their respective Departments as well as the greater law enforcement community.

Both currently recommend 180 grain JHPs at a bit over 1000 fps.
 
#20 ·
I carry Winchester Rangers (180 grain or 155 grain) for a couple of reasons:
1) Feed reliably in my gun (as has everything else).
2) My simple 5 one gallon water jug test resulted in a recovered slug that measured .91 in diameter and retained its full weight.
3) With 50 rounds for less than $20, I can afford to practice with a few mags of my carry ammo and not break the bank.
 
#22 ·
I've got a few I like, hornady 165grn FTX, their 155grn XTP, and Winchester 155grn STHP. The FTX doesn't have the deep penetration of the other 2 but it expands a lot more and hold together good for how much it does expand, very good and nasty warm weather round
 
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