Unneccessary or wise?

This is a discussion on Unneccessary or wise? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As far as being able to find ammo, 9mm and 45 hold little, if any, advantage over the 40. The 40 is everywhere, and still ...

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Thread: Unneccessary or wise?

  1. #16
    JT
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    As far as being able to find ammo, 9mm and 45 hold little, if any, advantage over the 40. The 40 is everywhere, and still growing. Look at how many law enforcement agencies use it.







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  3. #17
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    Euc,

    I went throught the .40 cal thing myself. I had a number of .40 handguns along with 9mm and .45 ACP. I shoot a lot, as much as 200 rounds a week, rarely ever less than 100 rounds a week. Even though .40 isn't a whole lot more expensive than 9mm, it is significantly more expensive to shoot.

    I have now settled on 9mm and .45 ACP; and that XD in .45ACP is lookin' mighty good. I've sold all my .40s except one G-22, and it's for sale, and one Sig 229 and I'd probably sell it.

    I'm perfectly comfortable with 9mm as a SD round and I, as others before me, am finding as I get older that "...a .45ACP recoil isn't that bad..." sure seems to hurt my aging wrists and a 9mm doesn't bother them at all. I'm wondering where I would be if my wrist had been getting pounded with .40, much less .45ACP for all these years.

    I'm convinced that there is a lot to the accumlative effect of shock to joints. If one doesn't shoot much, it probably won't matter. But what's the point of owning guns and not shooting them?

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Well, I'll chime in: I would ditch the .40, or .45. Why? Honestly, if you can afford 2-3K "stock" in all three calibers, keep them, otherwise, cost-wise, two is more sustainable.

    "SHTF" may be a time of national crisis- personally, I would see it as the time when you must have a registered firearm to buy approved quantities of approved ammunition. If the "national crisis" came after 5 years of such a policy, would you have sustainable armament, or a not-so-effective club? Just my thinking (which has lead to consolidation in 2 calibers in my entire repertoire: 9mm and .308).

  5. #19
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    Funny thing. If I shoot my Glock M27 at a range I seem to notice a lot of recoil and or muzzle flip. If I shoot it for an IDPA match, I hardly notice it at all. I call this the SUNDANCE KID factor: Remember this line from the movie?

    Sundance Kid: Can I move? I'm BETTER when I move.

    Given the increasing number of LE agencies that have traded up to the "shorty forty" I don't see this one going away anytime soon. I can't think of a single agency that uses the 10mm as a duty load. In fact IIRC the 40 was created when the FBI realized the 10mm was too strong for their personnel to handle and they didn't want the stigma of the 45 as a military round.

    Used to be a real problem when the only self defense rounds were FMJ. Then the differences between 9mm and 45 were more apparent. Since the advances in bullet technology, these differences have largely vanished. It still comes down to shot placement.

    Many people will cling to one caliber or another for it's legendary status. I'm one of those folks who thinks the 45 is top drawer. I don't feel fully armed unless I'm carrying a 45. The fact is, I'm well armed with just about any firearm, based on my training and experience. I just prefer the 45.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    I'm perfectly comfortable with 9mm as a SD round and I, as others before me, am finding as I get older that "...a .45ACP recoil isn't that bad..." sure seems to hurt my aging wrists and a 9mm doesn't bother them at all. I'm wondering where I would be if my wrist had been getting pounded with .40, much less .45ACP for all these years.

    I'm convinced that there is a lot to the accumlative effect of shock to joints. If one doesn't shoot much, it probably won't matter. But what's the point of owning guns and not shooting them?
    I'm not sure I buy this statement as being 100% fact. Look at Jeff Cooper, the Father of American Combat Pistol Shooting. He's well into his 90's and still shooting the 45 (He wouldn't be caught dead with a 9mm refers to them as the crutch-en-ticker caliber). Not to mention he's still hunting big game with some very big rifle calibers. You'd think that if the 45 were as punishing as some believe, he'd be out of commission with arthritis. I think that if you shoot 300+ rounds of anything more than a 22 in one sitting, it's going to affect you.

    But witness the reports coming back from "the sandbox" wherein complaints on the performance of the 9mm is dismal in comparison to those few units authorized the 45. Once again, we're talking ball ammo. So if the Geneva convention allowed JHP's the 9mm might do a better job.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  7. #21
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    I meant it on a personal level. I know a number of shooters that have opted for a 9mm over their beloved .45 ACP because of degenerative joint issues. Those of us that develop tender joints would probably be effected more and quicker by shooting .45ACPs than 9mm. I know for myself, I feel .45 ACP recoil more than 9mm, yet I'm not sensitive (i.e. tendancy to flinch or anticipate) at all to recoil.

  8. #22
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    I can see Tangle's point here, because I have relatively strong hands and wrists. Relatively.

    But arthritis is in my family. I may get to the point I'm sensitive enough to felt recoil that I'd have to consider stepping it down a little.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    I can see Tangle's point here, because I have relatively strong hands and wrists. Relatively.

    But arthritis is in my family. I may get to the point I'm sensitive enough to felt recoil that I'd have to consider stepping it down a little.
    Yep, it appears I have a touch of arthritis in my shooting hand thumb that is irritated by stress on the the wrist. Of course it could be that I am feeling the onset of some arthritis in my wrist.

    Euc, it may be wise to back off now and minimize irritation and perhaps acceleration of a potential condition instead of waiting until it is a problem. Just a thought.

    What is it today? Is everybody off today? I can hardly keep up with the posts. And, I am off (off from work that is - I know what you were thinking).

  10. #24
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    I'm having to manually reconfigure a bunch of stuff in the school's grading software. I'll type something in and then have to wait a moment.

    But re: the arthritis, I think that may be the one and only family ailment I have slipped. The folks that do have it in my clan felt it from a very early age.

    When it comes to shooting at speed while moving or even just extended static practice I stick to relatively mild loads and calibers. The only handgun cartridge I have a gun to shoot with that makes my hands sore is .44 Magnum and only if I shoot more than 50 rounds, which I rarely do any more.

    But after making a big shiny pile of brass with .40 S&W, I don't really "feel" it, as in it doesn't hurt. I feel the powder burns worse than the recoil. The felt recoil out of pretty much all my handguns is very mild, save for the P85, which just isn't a good fit to me.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    I'm having to manually reconfigure a bunch of stuff in the school's grading software. I'll type something in and then have to wait a moment....
    Oh sure, if I had a $1 everytime I've used that excuse!

  12. #26
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    Well they were supposed to put all my current and former students into their sections when they updated the server with the new attendance rosters from the counselors. But they didn't.

    Since the only way for them to do it automatically at this point would be to to shut down the entire district's attendance and grade systems for an hour and a half to upload the new update, which they will do but in May after finals are over, I'm stuck going in there and moving it manually one kid at a time for every section and progress report for the rest of the semester.

  13. #27
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    If you think that's bad, I'm not gonna get to go shooting today because the range is closed so the owner can go hunting! What kind of deal is that! I haven't been shooting since last Friday!

  14. #28
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    And, since we've drifted of the subject beyond recognition, I was looking at buying a Emerson CQC-11; looks like a really cool knife. But, alas, it has a 4.1" blade and is hence illegal to carry in TN. And they say football is a game of inches!

  15. #29
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    I use 9mm because that's what Browning Hi-Powers came in when I got mine in 1984. I'd consider getting a .40S&W because it would be an excuse to buy another Hi-Power.

    Gee, detect a trend here?

    I have .45ACP, .38Spl, .357Mag and 9mm. Different tools for different uses. Most don't get shot a lot for a long time, and then I go through a period of a lot of ammo for a while, depending on what type of shooting I'm doing.
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