45 acp ammo, FMJ or Flat Point FMJ
This is a discussion on 45 acp ammo, FMJ or Flat Point FMJ within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Our military uses non HP ammo. Just sayin.......
May 11th, 2011 03:03 PM
Our military uses non HP ammo. Just sayin....
May 11th, 2011 03:12 PM
Because they are forced to use FMJ by treaty.
Originally Posted by smolck
Can you identify any law enforcement agency that chooses to use FMJ over JHP?
Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.
May 11th, 2011 07:23 PM
I realize they are forced to, and yet they kill people just as dead. And if I was a police officer with someone behind a car door or other obstruction, FMJ's would be my choice to punch through. I'm not arguing here, just making a point. And a big fat 230gr .45 caliber bullet is going to do damage, expansion or not.
Originally Posted by MattInFla
Another thing, you always see expansion tests in soft media. What about a hollow point that hits the chest plate or a rib? Seems a FMJ would punch through better and keep going into the vitals.
Lastly, just like with anything, failure to expand does happen. Tnoutdoors on youtube has done some great ballistic tests and had several .45cal JHP's that never expanded at all.
May 11th, 2011 07:29 PM
When my life is on the line, nothing short of a M1A1 is big enough. But I cant conceal an Abrams, so .45 will have to do...
Originally Posted by Bart
Originally Posted by smolck
...with rifles. Whole other ballgame.
A buddy that served in Baghdad told me he'd have picked up a second rifle before he ever touched his M9.
May 11th, 2011 08:29 PM
Its a 45.... I would think the difference in damage would be a non-issue.
To err is human.
To forgive is divine.
Neither of which is Marine Corps policy.
"It's all about shot placement."- David (Slayer of Goliath)
May 12th, 2011 12:49 AM
Detroit PD used to carry FMJ until a few years ago.
07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006
Probably the only home based FFL that doesn't do transfers.
May 12th, 2011 01:39 AM
Not sure actually. The USMC put the FMJ in my hands for self preservation in 1982. I'd hate to think that Uncle Sam didn't do the best for me at the time. Damage? What is damage and how is it assessed? Our firearms are tools. The projectiles we employ in them are also tools. Every tool has a proper use. We can't carry the whole tool box with us all of the time, so we choose the best we can according to our circumstances and our environment. The pros and cons of selecting any one particular tool become evident only when conditions are specific. There is no time that you will face an enemy under specific conditions. Battle has only one rule, and that's to survive. The tool you use to survive is the best tool you have no matter what. Second guessing things only leaves doubt. Damage plays a very small part in the game when a win is what you're after. In the end game, thoughts of damage only deter you from the end means. Silly thoughts turn into dismay, and confusion leads to risk. Use what you have to the best of your ability and question not circumstance. Damage doesn't quite relate to survival unless you're over-thinking things. Stay above ground.
Originally Posted by Tx1911
May 14th, 2011 02:26 AM
It doesn't matter... Hollow points are far and away better than FMJ bullets. I have no idea why one would choose to use a FMJ bullet when modern hollow points are extremely reliable and easy to acquire. They punch bigger holes, and they limit the chances of overpenetration which is almost a 100% certainty with FMJ bullets. This also means 100% of the bullet's kinetic energy will be transferred to the target, rather than whatever is behind it.
Last edited by AZ Hawk; May 14th, 2011 at 03:28 AM.
Move. Shoot. Survive.
― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.”
― Thomas Paine
May 14th, 2011 03:08 AM
Here's my 2 cents. If a hollowpoint doesn't expand you are basically shooting more expensive ball ammo. If it does expand, you are getting a larger wound channel and making a bigger hole in the BG.
Considering the relative merits of handguns, shot placement is far more important than what they are hit with. If your gun is 100% reliable with hollowpoints, why would you carry something other than the most effective round available? How does a non-expanding bullet going through and through wasting what little energy it has outside the target perform better than a round that makes a large hole (.45) larger?
I know a lot of very highly trained people who carry ball, actually Truncated Cone FMJ, for the penetration. That's their choice, more power to them, it's just not my choice. I was next to a guy who managed to shoot himself in the butt; the round traveled through his butt and his leg and came to a stop in his calf. That's a lot of penetration (.40S&W 180gr TC FMJ) with very little real tissue damage. The Doctors decided to leave the bullet in his calf because they would cause more damage trying to remove it than it would do just sitting there (no exposed lead). He was back on the line the following day with barely a limp.
Bottom line, carry whatever is 100% reliable and you have confidence in. YMMV
Courage is endurance for one moment more…
Hollowpoints might expand, but bullets won't shrink.
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