Georgia Arms Quality Issue

Georgia Arms Quality Issue

This is a discussion on Georgia Arms Quality Issue within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I recently purchased some of Georgia Arms "canned heat" in .40 cal. I knew it was "factory reloads", so I expected a failures here and ...

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Thread: Georgia Arms Quality Issue

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    Georgia Arms Quality Issue

    I recently purchased some of Georgia Arms "canned heat" in .40 cal. I knew it was "factory reloads", so I expected a failures here and there. But I expected it to go through standard "factory quality control". I found that out of the box of 1,000 I went through this weekend (thanks to Brownie's great trainings ;-) ), about 10 or so had severe bullet setback. About 20 more did not feed and the bullet was set back after I ejected them. It looks like the control on the crimp is not up to par. See the image below with three bullets "out of the box". I did not load these these bullets. The bullet at the very left I consider "normal" and included as a reference. The center bullet had a barely visible setback (the little "neck" at the base of the bullet is shorter then normal). The one of the right is obviously "off". The 10 rounds I talk about above are just like the round on the right.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Give them a call. They tend to have pretty good customer service.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Rmac58's Avatar
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    I've had a couple of problem rounds, nothing serious. But one was like that.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    I will contact them about this, but I don't think there is much they can do to keep me as a customer. I have a second box which I haven't checked yet, but will probably next weekend. The visibly set back bullets are less of an issue to me as the less visible once. Wasn't this just the kind of problem that caused some Glocks to blow up?
    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. (Thomas Jefferson)

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    iI have bought 300 rounds at gun show did have few with set back

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    I look at it as buyer beware with reloads and expect to have a few...off. If you want tighter tollerances...get COTS NIB stuff.
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  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    They are literally five minutes away from my house but I have never done business with them. I tend to shy away from reloads. Those .40's have bad setback are dangerous and could lead to a Kb regardless of your gun manufacturer since the .40 is high pressure round to begin with.

    I will say that I have been tempted to stop in and buy some .38 specials from them on the cheap though.
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  8. #8
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    No reloads for me...for just that reason, unless you're reloading your own.
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  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    I've had 5k+ rounds of Canned Heat through my guns, mostly .45 ACP but also 9mm and .40 S&W, and I have only ever found 2 bad rounds (both .45). I have seen worse QC in the WWB I see people shoot at my IDPA club. Your mileage may vary, of course, but I don't see any reason to avoid them as a source of cheap practice ammo.

    Of course, I am reloading my own now, but if I need to buy some ammo, I'd still be happy to go back to GA Arms.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

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  10. #10
    VIP Member Array frankmako's Avatar
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    must have been a bad day at the plant. call them and they should make it right on your next order. if not don't buy from them again. some problems will happen, but you should not have many. they should have seen this when they were packed.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    Here is the reply I got from Georgia Arms. I must say the reply is good. I am still going to stay away from factory reloads going forward, but at least they took the time to explain.

    My short summary of this:
    - its a problem due to varying case dimensions.
    - even if the bullet is set back, it will not cause a safety problem as long as the gun meets specs.


    I am sorry for the problems you experienced. Even though you did not request a refund, I would be glad to replace the ammo for you. We stand behind all out products and are trying our best to produce a quality product. Please let me assure you that the demand for the product has not changed our QC requirements. Bullet set back on both 40 s&w as well as 357 sig and a few others is a normal issue that we work on every day. What has made the issue show up more often is the struggle for components which forces us to use a wide assortment of bullets and or brass and the dimensional disparity between the two. We have to under size the case to hold the bullet in place, the crimp alone will not do it. The 40 S&W case headspaces on the case mouth so we cannot roll crimp that case as you would a 38 or 44. A taper crimp of about .002 inch is all that is allowed. The problem is how much the cases vary in thickness and the bullets in exact diameter and taper. If we size all the cases well under size to hold the bullets, as I would like to, the thicker of the cases will create a bulge at the base of the bullet that will not allow the round to chamber. We are using a sizing die on the outside of the case to set the diameter on the inside, which forces us to walk a fine line between sizing the thin cases enough to hold the bullets but not so much that the thick cases are bulging. Most of the time we do this pretty well, but sometimes we will have a few thin wall cases sneak in with the rest that get by us. The good news is that we have done extensive research on bullet set back and how it effects pressure and I can assure you that the rumors of polymer framed pistols being destroyed by bullet set back are just that, rumors. We have sent to Hodgdon Powder Company for testing, all types of auto pistol rounds such as 9MM, 40 S&W, 10MM, 45ACP, 357 Sig etc. for pressure testing. Without getting too detailed as the story gets too long, we tested the rounds, as loaded, for pressure compliance with SAAMI specs. Once we had determined the pressure of the round loaded to the desired length, we pushed the bullet back until it was resting on the powder charge. What we found was that the pressures DID go up, but not to a level that would create any problems in a proper pressure vessel ( the term used by metalurgists for a rifle or pistol barrel). For example, the 40 S&W operates at 35,000 PSI maximum average. Our standard FMJ rounds are normally around 31,500 PSI. When we tested these rounds pushed back to the bullet, the pressure went up to 38,000 PSI which is over the average allowed but not over an individual pressure allowed. Nor is it over the proof pressure that all 40 S&W barrels SHOULD be tested to which is 47,000 PSI. What you will find is that all manufacturers do NOT proof test their barrels and some of these have a problem from time to time and it is blamed on other issues but we have not found this to be the case, the barrel is the problem. Please don't misunderstand my point, I am not advocating allowing set back bullets to go unnoticed, I am simply saying that while they are undesirable, they are not dangerous to the gun or shooter as has been represented by some in the industry. In any case, please let me know how we may proceed to solve this problem to your satisfaction. Thanks.
    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. (Thomas Jefferson)

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array dnowell's Avatar
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    That's pretty interesting in regards to bullet setback. If that's true, then the worries about regularly re-chambered rounds being set back by tiny amounts are basically debunked.

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Yep. I guess I am more curious about the numbers from the 9mm pressure tests, since everybody "knows" that since 9mm is proofed to lower pressures than .40S&W or 357SIG it is much more susceptible to setback issues.

    I wonder if we can convince GA Arms to post that pressure test info somewhere!
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    For the .40 pressure: I assume the bullets are not quite as "hot" as some other bullets (in particular self defense rounds). So they may be less sensitive to setbacks.

    If the maximum allowed is 35k psi, GA may have choosen the 31k psi for added safety (and for a cheap range round, nobody cares anyway what the exact speed of the bullet is).

    Setback may be more dangerous for a hollowpoint/self defense round which is optimized to be as fast as possible based on current designs.

    Now for 9mm: With all the 9mm +P and +P+ loads, standard 9mm loads may be more forgiving too.

    But then again, I am not an ammunition expert. That is one reason why I let factories worry about this vs. getting my own reloading setup :-)
    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. (Thomas Jefferson)

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    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    They do sell (new) gold dots $22.50 For 50rnds 9mm

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