federal quality standards, or uplula damage?

This is a discussion on federal quality standards, or uplula damage? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I bought 200 rounds of 40S&W Federal 180 gr HST HP from ammunitiontogo.com recently, and today I noticed that many (~2/3rds) cartridges from the box ...

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Thread: federal quality standards, or uplula damage?

  1. #1
    Member Array batpot's Avatar
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    federal quality standards, or uplula damage?

    I bought 200 rounds of 40S&W Federal 180 gr HST HP from ammunitiontogo.com recently, and today I noticed that many (~2/3rds) cartridges from the box I was loading from had ridges in them; some very deep, some only slight.

    I checked the other boxes that have not been opened, all 4 boxes have the same lot number, but only the ones that have been loaded into magazine have the ridges; a sampling form the other 3 boxes revealed no defects at all, aside from a 1 or 2 that had some very thin, small dings.

    Here are 2 cartridges representing the worse defect and least worst defect. Out of the box of 50, approximately 30 of them have ridges such as these.




    In some cases the dent goes all the way around the circumference of the casing, but in most cases, it's only about a ~60 degree arc across the case.

    Could the uplula loader be causing this?...they've only been loaded into mags maybe twice, and only 1 round here and there has been fully cycled through the gun.

    It'd be easy to blame Federal, except that it's only one box out of 4 that have any problems such as this and they're all from the same lot....perhaps this box was on the beginning or tail end of the lot?

    Should I just shoot them and get rid of them, or should I send them back?

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    It looks like a crimp problem during the loading process
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    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    How would the uplula make a ring? It only touches the casing with a flat surface.
    The cartridge doesn't rotate.

    But if you want to do your own test, take a good cartridge and load it using the uplula, then look at it. Did anything change?

  5. #4
    Member Array batpot's Avatar
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    eh...I didn't really think it was the uplula; I was just trying to cover all possible scenarios.

    It just strikes me as odd that only 1 box out of 4, all of which were from the same lot mind you, had a quite a few problems.

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    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
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    What issues could this cause?
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    Contact Federal directly and let them know about it. Check the Federal box for the lot numbers/proof of purchase and give them those numbers. They can direct you as to the numbers and locations on the box. I've used Federals my whole life and never saw anything like this. When I say something's not right, I'm not talking about Federal...wonder what happened. UpLULA doesn't cause it, at least not in my experience...
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    Member Array batpot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaSteve View Post
    What issues could this cause?
    it could cause the cartridge to either not fit in the chamber, or get lodged upon ejection.

    If it was cheap range ammo, I'd just shoot it and see what happens, but SD ammo is a little expensive to just shoot for the sake of getting rid of it, and it's obviously not worth the risk of causing a malfunction when you really need it.

    I'm going to send the pictures to federal and see what they say.

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Looks like a crimping problem to me also.

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    An uplula couldn't do that...impossible!
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  11. #10
    Member Array batpot's Avatar
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    found another thread on this at the m&p forums.

    couple of things to note from the thread on that forum:
    1. The deformation is sometimes caused by the factory (my expectation from the get go)

    2. The deformation is sometimes caused by sitting in M&P magazines for a couple of weeks (according to at least 1 member there...this phenomenon induces shockey face)

    3. After contacting federal about the issue, this member was told that HST ammo is only supposed to be supplied to Law Enforcement agencies, not to civilians (whaaaaaa?)

    It really sounds like a quality problem at Federal, and they're just trying to dodge the issue.

    more info here:
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    Member Array gglass's Avatar
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    I've checked my carry HST ammo for this effect and have to say that mine looks perfectly fine. I carry HST's in 9mm and 40 acp... I also just received my yummy .357 sig HST's.

    I do rotate out my carry ammo and I cannot find any rounds that exhibit that deformation.

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    3. After contacting federal about the issue, this member was told that HST ammo is only supposed to be supplied to Law Enforcement agencies, not to civilians (whaaaaaa?)
    Yep. Federal is very nasty on that issue. I heard in the ProArms podcast that they have yanked distribution rights from companies that were selling HST to civilians. No idea why.
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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    What it really looks like is that the crimp is being done before the bullet is fully seated in the case. Either the case is a bit longer than the other ones, or the seating die was out of adjustment when those bullets were seated.

    I don't think that it should affect the performance of the load. You might want to use them at the range if you have any doubts about carrying them.

    The only caliber I have had a similar problem like this is the 44-40 rounds which has a very thin case wall. It doesn't take much to mess those cases.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Member Array batpot's Avatar
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    I posted this over at the M&P forum but I might as well post it here, too.
    short answer: being loaded in the magazine is causing the creases!

    ...this is just strange. the hydra shoks I had before did not do this.
    Less than a week after loading blemish-free rounds into 2 magazines, about 2/3rds of those developed creases, though not quite as severe as the first ones.

    I decided to load the mags one final time with one less than capacity and I'll give it another week and see how they turn out.

    In the meantime, Federal responded to my email:

    Greetings,

    We apologize for the problem you encountered while using our ammunition.
    This is not typical of our quality standards, and we do appreciate you
    letting us know about your experience.

    To better assist you we would appreciate the ammunition in question be
    sent to us for further examination. Upon receiving your ammo we in
    return will ship to a replacement box of ammunition as soon as they are
    available as well as reimbursing you for your shipping charges.

    ...

    Please package the ammunition into 1 box and package tightly so the
    contents do not shift. Please write ORM-D on two sides of the box so UPS
    is aware it is Other Regulated Materials class (D).

    Once again we apologize for the problem you encountered.

    Thank you,
    Federal Cartridge
    ...no mention of Law Enforcement at all!

    I'm going to try them on the phone tomorrow, and failing that, reply to the email with the details.

  16. #15
    Member Array FHBrumb's Avatar
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    Yup, early crimp. If the OAL is correct, and the round will smoothly chamber, I'd shoot them at the range. If the OAL is short, or the round will not smoothly chamber, discard in some safe way.

    When you take them to ship, the ORM-D shipping will not be cheap.
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