Self defense: Mixing ammo types in same magazine

This is a discussion on Self defense: Mixing ammo types in same magazine within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've read that FMJ ammo can overpenetrate, but that JHP can have issues with sufficiently penetrating heavy layers of clothing, auto glass, etc. This led ...

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Thread: Self defense: Mixing ammo types in same magazine

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    Member Array coltrane59's Avatar
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    Self defense: Mixing ammo types in same magazine

    I've read that FMJ ammo can overpenetrate, but that JHP can have issues with sufficiently penetrating heavy layers of clothing, auto glass, etc.

    This led me to stack my self-defense magazines with both types in an alternating pattern. My first couple rounds are JHP, since most defensive scenarios involve only 2 or so fired shots. After the first 2, I alternate betwen FMJ and JHP. My reasoning is that if I'm ever caught in a situation where the first shots of JHP didn't penetrate effectively, I will have some FMJ's flying out to make some holes.


    I'm looking for thoughts on this strategy. Good, bad? Is there a better solution? Anyone else do this? Impart your wisdom, friends.

    Thanks!

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  3. #2
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    Magazine Cocktails.
    I sure have heard of folks doing exactly that.
    If everything feeds flawlessly I really don't see any problem with it.
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    jfl
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    Keep It Simple ...
    Even highly trained individuals have more misses than hits in a combat situation.

    People involved in SD shootings think they fired a couple of shots; actually, they emptied the mag and kept squeezing the trigger.

    Lots of people here and among my students think too much about the "hardware".
    I believe the "hardware" (what's in your hand, gun, ammo, laser, light) counts for 20% at most and the "software" (what's between your ears) count for 80% for the outcome of the confrontation.
    I know people who will spend over $2000 on a super-duper, customized pistol but do not want to take formal training.

    I know, it is part of today's civilization to believe that expensive tools can replace craftsmanship; it would be nice if it was true.

    Calibers, bullet weights and design, energy, have no importance if you miss.
    As IDPA shooters like to say:"You cannot miss fast enough to win"
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    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

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    I see no advantage to a 'cocktail' of rounds for SD.
    I doubt that you will have time to think (in a SD situation) about what the next round is going to be...OMOYMV

    Stay armed...what ever works for ya'...stay safe!
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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Most common complaint about hollow points and heavy clothing is that the cavity gets plugged and they fail to expand, effectively making them FMJ. FMJ will bounce of windshield glass too. Any bullet will depending on the angle of impact. I see no reason to mix.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Most common complaint about hollow points and heavy clothing is that the cavity gets plugged and they fail to expand, effectively making them FMJ. FMJ will bounce of windshield glass too. Any bullet will depending on the angle of impact. I see no reason to mix.
    +10

    I can't see me doing it but good luck.
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    Member Array OhShoot's Avatar
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    I finally found the only way to get a jam in my XD 9 "stacking" rounds.

    A Blazer (aluminum) 115 gr. FMJ, followed by a Federal American Eagle 147 gr. FMJ flatnose would jam every time, both in my subcompact and service models.

    Yet both type of cartridges feed/eject fine if not mixed.

    So IF you are going to mix rounds, better run a good number of mags' worth to ensure reliability.

    - OS

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    If it makes you feel better, why not as long as they feed right and shoot to the same spot; but, with modern JHP's I don't think it's really an issue anymore - they expand and penetrate. If they do clog and turn to FMJ, well penetration is solved at least.

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    Member Array coltrane59's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies so far...magazine "cocktail"...sounds like this has been discussed before :) Good points.

    As a counter argument (maybe not a good one, but I'll try):

    FMJ and JHP have different ballistic characteristics. So, in an SD scenario, if the average person really does keep firing until the mag is empty, then how would it not be a good plan/insurance to have two different types of ballistic events happening during the incident? Why put all the eggs in one basket (JHP) vs. the other (FMJ), unless there is no difference between the two rounds?

    Let's say two or three of your total shots are "well placed" -- would you rather have those hits be all of the same kind, or a variety? Wouldn't the variety increase the potential for one of your well placed shots to be effective, given that certain aspects of the incident are out of your control (e.g., bad guys attire)?

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    Member Array coltrane59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhShoot View Post
    I finally found the only way to get a jam in my XD 9 "stacking" rounds.

    A Blazer (aluminum) 115 gr. FMJ, followed by a Federal American Eagle 147 gr. FMJ flatnose would jam every time, both in my subcompact and service models.

    Yet both type of cartridges feed/eject fine if not mixed.

    So IF you are going to mix rounds, better run a good number of mags' worth to ensure reliability.

    - OS

    I haven't tested this out at the range, and based on your experience, it sounds like I should. I assumed if the gun can feed both seperately then it shouldn't matter which one is next in line in the magazine.

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    The only loads I would ever consider doing this with are the Winchester SXZ available through Bass Pro. If you are not familiar with them they are a target load (FMJ) and a self defense load (JHP) with identical weights, profiles, velocities, recoil and everything. The idea behind them is you can practice with the cheaper FMJ and it will feel and function identically to the self defense load.

    But going back to your original post, if you know that FMJ tends to over penetrate why would you want to use it at all? First if you get a through and through on your target your round is not transferring all of its energy to the target meaning you are probably going to have to shoot more rounds. Also since it did not dump all of its energy in the target, how much energy is it carrying further down range and what is it going to transfer that energy to?
    Check you local laws. In Texas I am immune from civil actions filed by a bad guy or his family if my shooting of him is criminally justified. That protection does not extend to damages I do to an innocent third party or their property.
    So I can be the big hero by taking out the bank robber with a perfect text book head shot, but if the round then exits his head and breaks the bank's window and punches a hole in the radiator of another customer's 1974 Ford Maverick in the parking lot, I owe some people some money.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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    I like to mix my JHPs and ball rounds with sound-seeking, nuclear-tipped, auto-tracking wadcutters.

    Frankly, I would go with wherever your point of aim = point of impact. I have yet to see anyone say "ok...I've fired 3 rounds of JHP...next is Ball..."

    You shouldn't be concerned what round is coming up next as much you need to be focused on the BG...or moving....or communicating...
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    Quote Originally Posted by jfl View Post
    Keep It Simple ...
    Even highly trained individuals have more misses than hits in a combat situation.

    People involved in SD shootings think they fired a couple of shots; actually, they emptied the mag and kept squeezing the trigger.

    Lots of people here and among my students think too much about the "hardware".
    I believe the "hardware" (what's in your hand, gun, ammo, laser, light) counts for 20% at most and the "software" (what's between your ears) count for 80% for the outcome of the confrontation.
    I know people who will spend over $2000 on a super-duper, customized pistol but do not want to take formal training.

    I know, it is part of today's civilization to believe that expensive tools can replace craftsmanship; it would be nice if it was true.

    Calibers, bullet weights and design, energy, have no importance if you miss.
    As IDPA shooters like to say:"You cannot miss fast enough to win"
    Very well stated. I must add practice, practice, practice.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
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    Member Array jimbo2's Avatar
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    Hope this won't be viewed as a high jack. Lets say you do empty this cocktail on a BG, will this come back at you in court. Would love to hear legal advise on this.

    Jim

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    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    I like Clint Smiths thought.. attack the 3 parts of armor until they stop!!
    JHP at COM, pelvic region, and head. Find a hollow point that feeds well and shoot it.

    ETA: What do you shoot?
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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