.38 special "FBI load" question

.38 special "FBI load" question

This is a discussion on .38 special "FBI load" question within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I remember reading an article by massed Ayoob that the old "FBI load" .38special(I'm speaking of the 158gr. +P LSWC HP) round out of a ...

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    Senior Member Array 1911luver's Avatar
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    .38 special "FBI load" question

    I remember reading an article by massed Ayoob that the old "FBI load" .38special(I'm speaking of the 158gr. +P LSWC HP) round out of a S&W J-frame snubby had the same ballistic effect on pig caucuses as 230gr 45acp ammo out of a 5" government model. Anyone here recall this article or where I can find it?


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    jfl
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    I really don't think so !!!
    Maybe it was taken out of context, or M.A. had a brain fart.
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    IIRC the FBI load's recommendation is because it expanded well, retained weight and did enough penetration. But I don't recall anything about equal performance to a 45.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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    I don't believe that...
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    FMJ
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    I grew up with a friend, his dad was an FBI agent that carried a 2inch .38 that was loaded with standard lead round nose bulletts. He said you could tell the rookie agent because they would carry thier gun all the time. He left it in his desk most of the time, only had to pull it twice on duty his whole carreer. Never fired it. Paper work trail is what put them in jail, not the gun.

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    Senior Member Array torrejon224's Avatar
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    My uncle also a retired agent did the same. I could never understand it but we live in a whole different world today. Things sure have changed and unfortunately for the worst it seems!

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    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    He left it in his desk most of the time, only had to pull it twice on duty his whole carreer. Never fired it.
    No disrespect towards anyone but I would find it hard to "pull" a gun when it was left behind in a desk draw.

    I was a LEO in the late 70's and we were required to respond to any criminal act we witnessed whether we were on "duty" or not.

    Common sense also prevailed IE: A bank hold up with 5 guys armed with Automatic weapons and you are armed with a 5 shot stubby. Be a perfect witness

    Not responding, when possible, would result in disciplinary action.

    A badge and gun were required except when at your home or outside the city.

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    Senior Member Array 1911luver's Avatar
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    its been years since I read that article maybe I do have some facts wrong,but I do remember reading how this load was a good performer in shootings. Is this still a good round for a snub nose revolver for self defense? how does it compare to other loads like the 110gr hydra shok for example?

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    I have also read the same article by Mr. Ayoob, and he has made the same statement in the Gun Digest book Combat Handguns. However to be clear I believe that he stated that the wound characteristics of the FBI load (158gr. +P LSWC HP) were similar to the wound characteristics of 230 gr. ball ammo due to the expansion characteristics of the LSWC HP bullet.

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    google it
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    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    I do not recall the column you’re referring to, but that 38 +P round is a proven performer.


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    Good column regarding 38 special loads

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    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be surprised if the 158 grain SWCHP +P had similar wounding effects as .45ACP hardball. Hardball, after all, doesn't expand and the +P LSWCHP does pretty reliably.

    Its still an effective defensive load, despite more recent .38 Special developments. Being a 158 grain, it will also probably shoot point of aim in fixed sight guns, which is always a plus.
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    Landric's right. It is very effective. Any Texas critter up to and including a couple of deer on which I've turned my .38 Special and +P 158 grain SWC-HP ammo has never failed to go down for the count with a good hit. Used to always use Winchester's rendition of the load but recently switched to Remington which appears to have a mite more velocity and softer lead.

    Any of my fixed sight .38 Special revolvers whether Colt or Smith & Wesson shoot it to point of aim too, something that can't always be said of loads featuring the lighter bullets. That said, for most reasonable self defense distances with any .38 Special loading, none of the revolvers are off enough to matter.
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    Member Array NickySantoro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911luver View Post
    I remember reading an article by massed Ayoob that the old "FBI load" .38special(I'm speaking of the 158gr. +P LSWC HP) round out of a S&W J-frame snubby had the same ballistic effect on pig caucuses as 230gr 45acp ammo out of a 5" government model. Anyone here recall this article or where I can find it?
    I recall the article. IIRC, he compared the FBI load in effectiveness to .45 ACP hardball.

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    Member Array PeterCartwright's Avatar
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    I remember Ayoob discussing this as well, but I thought he was referring to the controversial "one shot stop" statistics done by Evan and Sanow (sp?). I don't have a dog in the "one shot stop" squabbles, but I like the Remington 158 gr. SWCHP +P in my K frames. They shoot nicely to point of aim. My 642 seems to like them as well.

    Ed Lovett discusses this load favorably in his neat text on the snubbie.

    PC

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