FMJ verses LRN for practice

FMJ verses LRN for practice

This is a discussion on FMJ verses LRN for practice within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK, since my walmart never has ammo I am thinking of placing a large order by mail order. Assuming I can find someone that has ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    FMJ verses LRN for practice

    OK, since my walmart never has ammo I am thinking of placing a large order by mail order.
    Assuming I can find someone that has stock, which would be better for practice. Since I am using it in a snub nose revolver I dont have to much concern for feeding issues.

    I can get FMJ truncated or lead round nose flat point.
    I can also get lead wad cutters and jacketed hollow points for slightly more.

    I kind of believe it makes sense to shoot a load that is simular to your carry load so I have been using the FMJ truncated since its the same weight as my carry round.

    What advantages or disadvantages are there to lead verses jacketed. I know that wad cutters are supposedly more accurate, but why? Would shooting a heavier wad cutter make a noticable difference in point of aim when switching to SD hollow points?


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    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Replies requested

    Humm, no replies yet. I was sure someone with more knowledge about ballistics than myself would be willing to explain the advantage or disadvantage of lead verses jacketed rounds, especially as it applies to gun wear and cleaning issues, and also the ballistic differences between wad cutters and truncated flat points. I really would appreciate anyones opinions on this.

  3. #3
    Member Array alnitak's Avatar
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    I find no ballistic differences at 25 yards or less in truncated cone or LSWC vs. FMJs or HPs. I do find some difference in POI based on ammo weight and velocity (e.g., POI of +P is generally higher than std. 9mm).

    Full wad cutters are used for target practice because they make a bigger, more consistent holes that can be easily seen. Again, at SD distances I wouldn't expect much difference, however, I always shoot a mag of my SD ammo after my practice ammo just to "re-center" my brain with the appropriate POA sight picture (especially since my SD ammo is +P and range practice ammo generally not).

    I shoot lead a lot and I don't think it makes any difference for most handgun applications. Generally, if the bullets are moving at 1100 fps or less, you won't experience leading in the barrel. That can change with the hardness of the lead that's cast, but it's a good benchmark. I have never had any leading, even with .357 and .44 mag loads moving at 1350+ fps using LSWCs. I also shoot lead out of rifles with the same results. BTW, lead cast bullets are as accurate as any factory jacketed loads and are my first choice for hunting larger game (check out Randy Garrett .44 and .45-70 bullets).

    Some pistols, like the PM9 with a polygonal barrel, are not recommended for use with lead bullets because of the increased risk of leading (however, the CW9 should be fine).

    I have shot a lot of Berry's plated, TC bullets out of my 9mm and find them extremely accurate as well.

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    My experience is that the barrel will lead even at 800 fps. However, on the average lead is cheaper, and the barrel won't wear out as fast. However, most would never wear out anyway.

    I just don't like to clean lead out of the barrel, but shoot it anyway. I find less leading if I load the magazine with the last round or two jacketed. The theory that doing that irons the lead to the barrel is not correct in my personal experience of shooting many thousand rounds.

    The lesser cost of lead makes a little extra elbow grease worth it.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    My experience is that the barrel will lead even at 800 fps. However, on the average lead is cheaper, and the barrel won't wear out as fast. However, most would never wear out anyway.

    I just don't like to clean lead out of the barrel, but shoot it anyway. I find less leading if I load the magazine with the last round or two jacketed. The theory that doing that irons the lead to the barrel is not correct in my personal experience of shooting many thousand rounds.

    The lesser cost of lead makes a little extra elbow grease worth it.

    Regards,
    Jerry
    Alot of the leading problems can be prevented with quality lead bullets of the proper size. Most my guns prefer .001 over sized bullets. If you buy .429 bullets for your 44 they will most likely lead in most guns. Try some .430 one. Many makers will sell different diameter bullets for each caliber.

    When I go to a gun shop to buy cast bullets I take my mic with me. Don't trust what they tell you the size is. I measured some 45 acp bullets the other day that went .450 on one side an .452 on the other. I got a good enough price on them that I will put up with a little leading. Kroil takes it right out.

    You will pay a bit more for good cast bullets but its worth it. With quality bullets in my 44 mag I get no leading with moderate to heavy loads. I guarantee they are loaded much over 800 fps.
    My 45-90 using 30-1 bullets rarely ever leads either.

    Michael

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Alot of the leading problems can be prevented with quality lead bullets of the proper size. Most my guns prefer .001 over sized bullets. If you buy .429 bullets for your 44 they will most likely lead in most guns. Try some .430 one. Many makers will sell different diameter bullets for each caliber.

    When I go to a gun shop to buy cast bullets I take my mic with me. Don't trust what they tell you the size is. I measured some 45 acp bullets the other day that went .450 on one side an .452 on the other. I got a good enough price on them that I will put up with a little leading. Kroil takes it right out.

    You will pay a bit more for good cast bullets but its worth it. With quality bullets in my 44 mag I get no leading with moderate to heavy loads. I guarantee they are loaded much over 800 fps.
    My 45-90 using 30-1 bullets rarely ever leads either.

    Michael
    Hi Michael,

    Some of mine are with Oregon Trail "silver bullets." Even those do some amount of leading in all of my 1911s. I have 5 in my safe.

    Obviously our experiences are not the same.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    Hi Michael,

    Some of mine are with Oregon Trail "silver bullets." Even those do some amount of leading in all of my 1911s. I have 5 in my safe.

    Obviously our experiences are not the same.

    Regards,
    Jerry
    I have to admit about being lucky. Some guns just don't like lead. I've had a few. I just wanted him to know that not all bullets are the same. A good place to look is over on
    Cast Boolits - Dedicated To The World Of Cast Bullets!

    I have heard good stuff about the Oregon Trail bullets but havn't tried them yet.

    Michael

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    Leading is primarily a combination of bullet hardness and velocity. The higher the velocity, the harder the lead needs to be to prevent leading. However, a hard bullet at a lower velocity tends to lead because its too hard. It base of the bullet doesn't expand to hug the bore upon firing, and the hot gasses pass the bullet as it travels down the barrel. Those hot gasses melt the lead a bit, and it sticks to the bore.

    I shoot lead bullets all the time and I have zero leading problems. I get my bullets from Missouri Bullet. They offer different hardness bullets based on the application one is loading them for. Softer bullets for lower velocities, harder bullets for higher velocities.

    The point was driven home to me recently when I shot some factory .44 Special LSWC through one of my revolvers. I got a huge amount of leading. The same weight bullet loaded to the same velocity from Missouri Bullet didn't cause any leading. The factory lead bullet was harder, and probably meant for .44 Magnum loads.

    I don't see any practical advantage to shooting jacketed handgun bullets at targets, but YMMV.
    -Landric

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  9. #9
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    I prefer jacketed, lead clean up is a pain.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array AZ Desertrat's Avatar
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    I load a lot of LRN's for practice....I just use Flitz metal polish to get rid of the lead deposits.....works fine.
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  11. #11
    Member Array alnitak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landric View Post
    Leading is primarily a combination of bullet hardness and velocity. The higher the velocity, the harder the lead needs to be to prevent leading. However, a hard bullet at a lower velocity tends to lead because its too hard. It base of the bullet doesn't expand to hug the bore upon firing, and the hot gasses pass the bullet as it travels down the barrel. Those hot gasses melt the lead a bit, and it sticks to the bore.

    I shoot lead bullets all the time and I have zero leading problems. I get my bullets from Missouri Bullet. They offer different hardness bullets based on the application one is loading them for. Softer bullets for lower velocities, harder bullets for higher velocities.

    I don't see any practical advantage to shooting jacketed handgun bullets at targets, but YMMV.
    +1 to all the above. I also get a bunch of my bullets from Missouri Bullet and like them a lot. They are cast to the hardnes specific for the application, as you stated. Never had a leading problem with them in .44 special, .44 mag or .357 mag. I always buy bullets sized for .001 over the barrel bore size. Even when using brands other than MBC, no problem with leading.

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