357 125gr. jsn vs. 158gr. fmj

357 125gr. jsn vs. 158gr. fmj

This is a discussion on 357 125gr. jsn vs. 158gr. fmj within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You're hiking/camping in the boondocks, just you and the Cougar. Your gun has a 4" barrel, which round would you choose between 125gr. jacketed soft ...

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Thread: 357 125gr. jsn vs. 158gr. fmj

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    Member Array Bart's Avatar
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    357 125gr. jsn vs. 158gr. fmj

    You're hiking/camping in the boondocks, just you and the Cougar. Your gun has a 4" barrel, which round would you choose between 125gr. jacketed soft nose or 158gr. full metal jacket? Why?


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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    You're hiking/camping in the boondocks, just you and the Cougar. Your gun has a 4" barrel, which round would you choose between 125gr. jacketed soft nose or 158gr. full metal jacket? Why?
    Cats and the .357 Magnum is a good combination, IME.

    Personally, unless I had to contend with bears, Black not Brown, I'd keep my usual defensive load in the gun, which is a 125 Grain SJHP or 125 Grain JHP.

    Cats seem to respond well to rounds that work well on a violent human aggressors, and are about the same size and weight. They are also thin skinned compared to many animals that are hunted. I'd be looking for a round that mimics the 125 Grain JHP or SJHP if it were me.

    If I had to choose one of your loads I'd probably take the 125 Grain jacketed soft nose, but I'd be hoping to hit "major" bone to limit penetration and keep from having a small "through and through" wound. Personally I wouldn't change from my normal defensive carry load in .357 Magnum, as all my practice has been with the JHP/SJHP loads in 125 Grain weight, and I know where they hit when I'm aiming. I can't say the same about either load you've selected.

    Biker

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    Member Array patrol's Avatar
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    Bottomline both would do fine on a cougar. The lighter hollowpoint would cause more trauma as lighter rounds travel at faster velocity which limits penetration but causes a nasty wound cavity and heavy trauma. Slow bigger rounds penetrate better and thats a good thing also. What truely matters is where you hit your target. Personally, I'd rather use a short barreled 308 carbine like a M1A1 Socom on a cougar just to make sure or a 12guage sabot slug. If you want to make the handgun your primary gun take a look at "Extreme Shock" ammo.
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    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
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    How about a Fiocchi Extrema 158grain JHP (or other quality round) ? You get expansion along with a heavy weight bullet.

    Try some in your 4 incher and see how they peform compared to the rounds you normally use.

    bosco

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I gotta agree with Biker on this one. For a cat, and if you know your not going to encounter any thicker skinned or larger predators, the hollow point or JSP is going to be your better round so you get expansion instead of a through and through shot.

    I split the difference around here and load a 158 gr JSP for either a 4 or 6 inch .357, and have them traveling at a bit over 1400 fps for use on either White tail, or feral hogs. Hollow points would not penetrate good for a hog, and a FMJ would probably just slide right through a deer.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    1) it doesn't really matter, since the Cougar's going to silently circle around you and jump on your back. So anything that makes a lot of noise will work just as well.

    2) I prefer a lighter bullet over heavier unless the gun is pretty heavy. A 4" N frame can handle the 158's better than a K frame can.

    3) FMJ's are going to tunnel right through a cougar at defensive range, probably having no stopping power at all. He may die three days later from gastroenteritis, but it won't make any difference to you.

    Conclusion: I'd want a 125 grain .357 sjhp of good defensive quality, manufacture, and design, same as you'd consider appropriate for self defense in the streets of DEE-troit. E.g., Remington Golden Saber, Federal Hydrashock, Hornady XTP.
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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Nothing higher on the food chain than I am gets shot with a handgun if I have any say in the affair.

    That said, whatever you can place better.

    Also, while I'm probably worrying about nothing...I don't like trusting my life to rounds that haven't been designed to be fired in anger...that usually excludes FMJ from defensive considerations.

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    Why put a hole through him the size of a pencil, when you can put a hole in him the size of a nickle? JSP, not FMJ.
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    Member Array Marvin Knox's Avatar
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    +1 on your carry round. Nice wide mushroom in a soft skinned critter that has about the same depth to critical areas as a bad guy.

    Cat hair vs. denim's got to be a wash IMO.

    I wonder if "Old Grampa" has done any cat hair over wet pack tests online.

    I use the DPX 125gr. round. Consistent mushroom with great penetration and no separation.

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    Member Array Bart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Nothing higher on the food chain than I am gets shot with a handgun if I have any say in the affair.

    That said, whatever you can place better.

    Also, while I'm probably worrying about nothing...I don't like trusting my life to rounds that haven't been designed to be fired in anger...that usually excludes FMJ from defensive considerations.
    What about the same rounds fired from a RIFLE? When it comes down to handgun vs. rifle in the same caliber, the only difference is the range benefit of the rifle. OR, are you implying a larger caliber, more powerful hunting round in relation to the food chain, in a rifle?

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    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Neither. I will use 125-grain JHPs when walking in cougar country, which is just about anywhere outside the city around here. Cougars are relatively small, and thin-skinned, about the size of a human adversary. I have been assured by a friend who has BT&DT that a 125-grain JHP is plenty for close-range cougars, and I have personal experience with the 125-grain JHP against a cougar-sized human adversary. I DO want rapid expansion.

    Ideally, yes, a rifle IS better, but if the cougar's stalk is successful, but his bite just a bit off, so my spine is still able to transmit impulses to my hands, I need something I can unholster with one hand, and press against the cat, for contact shots. A slung rifle might well be pinned between me and the cat.

    A rifle is great for protecting another person, or one of the pooches, from a cougar. Of course, in Texas, cougars are hunted, so they tend to give humans a wide berth, unlike Khaliforniastan, where they are protected, and tend to not fear humans.
    Last edited by Rexster; May 19th, 2009 at 03:40 PM. Reason: typo, clarity

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    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    What about the same rounds fired from a RIFLE? When it comes down to handgun vs. rifle in the same caliber, the only difference is the range benefit of the rifle. OR, are you implying a larger caliber, more powerful hunting round in relation to the food chain, in a rifle?
    Actually, with full-pressure .357 ammo, the rifle's longer barrel can impart a few hundred more FPS. Long-case magnum ammo gets quite a boost in longer barrels.

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    I would use a 158gr JHP on a cat. Penetration and expansion. What's not to like?
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

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    I have scarce use for the 125 grain bullet in the .357 Magnum cartridge. I like the heavier bullets. I think the 125 grain bullet weight is overrated.
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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    I have scarce use for the 125 grain bullet in the .357 Magnum cartridge. I like the heavier bullets. I think the 125 grain bullet weight is overrated.
    Sir,

    I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but evidence suggest that the 125 Grain .357 Magnum load is pretty good. It's not called the "King of the Street" for nothing.

    Each caliber has a load that is optimal for it, for certain uses. Some of those uses over-lap, like here. Aggressive cougars and aggressive bi-pedal species seem to fall consistantly with the 125 Grain JHP load. In the case of a bi-pedal aggressor you don't have the over-penetration issues that the heavier bullets, even in JHP, give you in the .357 Magnum.

    Take care and stay safe.

    Biker

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