June 10th, 2009 09:20 PM
Regulation & ammo shortage
I bought a new S&W J-frame a few weeks back, and I have yet to find any ammo for it in the Houston area. I've been to five different Walmarts, three numerous times, an Academy, and a Bass Pro. Those are the only sources of ammunition for a community of 100,000. In all those visits, I found virtually no pistol ammo and very little rifle ammo. I've seen lots of off the cuff explanations about demand, but I'm having difficulty accepting that it's just excess demand. Seems to me the problem is much more systemic.
I'm curious what effect overall regulation is having. I suspect that regulation has the effect of reducing the number of suppliers that can compete and discouraging importation or add-on production during a nationwide shortage like we're having now. I was wondering if anyone can help me understand how regulations would affect a would be startup manufacturer from the ground up, or how regulation would affect a startup importer in the same way.
Let's say I wanted to become a small producer to supply my community of 100,000, or let's say I wanted to try and import for the same customer base. What would be the total impact of regulation, at all levels, to cost, time, effort, and even feasibility?
June 10th, 2009 09:26 PM
Some things to think about:
Ammunition Accountability Legislation
It has already started...
Remember how Obama said that he wasn't going to take
your guns? Well, it seems that his allies in the anti-gun world have
no problem with taking your ammo!
The bill that is being pushed in 18 states (including
Illinois and Indiana) requires all ammunition to be encoded by the
manufacture a data base of all ammunition sales. So they will know
how much you buy and what calibers.
Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009 unless
the ammunition is coded...
Any privately held uncoded ammunition must be destroyed by
July 1, 2011. (Including hand loaded ammo.) They will also charge a
.05 cent tax on every round so=20 every box of ammo you buy will
go up at least $2.50 or more!
If they can deprive you of ammo they do not need to take your gun!
This legislation is currently pending in 18 states:
Alabama, Arizona,California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana,
Kentucky, Maryland,Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, New York,
Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, and
June 11th, 2009 12:08 AM
It's not the regulation
As a small ammunition manufacturer in the Houston area, I can assure you that the current problem is not regulation, but simple supply and demand.
We are almost at a standstill on production, because we simply cannot get components. Our suppliers are moving product daily (with the exception of primers), just not to us at the rate they were supplying us before the crush of demand hit.
Since we do not export our ammunition, we have no regulation that affects us beyond taxes and ATF licensing rules, same as before.
As far as microstamping and laser serial numbers for ammunition, that legislation has been introduced in state legislatures for many years, and has been a non-issue in most of those states.
We have considered reselling ammo from the major manufacturers, but none of the wholesale jobbers will give us the time of day, even with our demonstrated customer order base. They simply move all of their current available ammo supply through their existing customers, and do not have the desire to work with new customers.
Demand is outstripping supply (how much has each person on this board stocked up on ammo in the last 6 months? Not that I blame you- I am doing it too, for the first time in my life) that is your answer.
That's my take on it from the edge of the inside.
June 11th, 2009 03:39 AM
You should have gone to GRB gun show last weekend. Plenty ammo even in .38/.357.
Originally Posted by dldeuce
NRA Life Member
June 11th, 2009 10:41 AM
I'm just trying to understand why the supply can't meet the demand, and what exactly is the bottleneck in the supply chain? Is it raw materials or manufacturing/tooling? We're really not hearing any information on this other than just pure speculation. Sure, the demand is obvious, and that's not going to end any time soon with bare shelves in every store in the country. I just can't imagine that there are no suppliers in a world economy that aren't able or willing to fill the demand.
Originally Posted by mprasek
June 11th, 2009 10:47 AM
I found some .38/.357 at Academy in Pasadena friday. It was monarch ammo, not the greatest by any means, but it was there. I also bought 2 100 round packs of WWB .45 acp at the walmart in liberty yesterday. Although they guy behind me bought the rest (4boxes). He did have a valid point in that he and his wife just bought some new kimbers and are fixing to take their CHL class.
June 11th, 2009 10:52 AM
It's my understanding that the manufacturers aren't increasing their out put. They would have to buy more equipement and hire more people. They know that at some point all the ammo hording will come to an end and then they will have to lay personal off and have excess equipment. I figure with the price of fuel along with Wal-mart and such places limiting the amount you can buy........ammo will soon be back on the shelves. I have bought 45 ammo twice this past week and have seen dozens of different handgun ammo on the shelf at various Wal-marts in the Dallas area.
Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas
June 11th, 2009 10:54 AM
I was at the previous gun show where I bought this .38spl revolver. I wasn't shopping for ammo, but I don't recall seeing a lot of ammunition, and what I saw was marked up pretty good. I suspect these secondary suppliers are where we're going to see permanent price increases. I suspect what you're seeing sold here is just what had been surplus supply, and now price incentive is just now bringing it to market. If the major retailers can't get it, I would doubt small retailers at gun shows are getting anything off the production lines. I'd suspect they're just scraping together some remaining stock and selling it for a premium price. If not, yeah, I wish I had gone to the gun show!
Originally Posted by john5
June 11th, 2009 10:58 AM
I found this letter a while ago and posted it on another thread. It might be interesting to see when thinking about why supplies are low.
June 11th, 2009 11:06 AM
I've heard that too, but all we've heard is very little and seemingly very speculative. Those comments would make sense if this was just an isolated run on ammunition. I'm new to buying ammunition, but I've been reading that there have been supply shortages for years.
Originally Posted by Reborn
What about importing? No other manufacturers in the world see an opportunity to sell ammunition in the US? Walmart is only looking to US manufacturers to fill the ammunition demand?
June 11th, 2009 11:09 AM
All this letter says is that 100 people are getting laid off. It doesn't say anything about why they're getting laid off. In a period of critical demand and bare shelves in major retailers across the country, why are 100 people getting laid off at a ammunition manufacturer?
Originally Posted by boscobeans
June 14th, 2009 06:15 PM
For what it is worth, that layoff was announced before the crush started, and CCI has rehired those folks and more, and have recently increased their primer production to 225% of what it was before the election. However, the demand for their ammo has increased about the same amount, which prevents the primers from getting into the supply chain. (I am not an apologist for CCI nor related to them in any way, just an interested party.)
Originally Posted by boscobeans
As of today, June 14th, the biggest problem is still primers. Bullets are slow, but trickling through the backorders.
June 14th, 2009 06:52 PM
The letter was dated Jan/2009. I am not sure about your area but around here guns and ammo started flying out of the gunshops at record levels starting in October and after the election the shelves started to look pretty bare. By January things were looking a little bleak.
I guess the stores didn't place orders to refill their stock until after January.
June 14th, 2009 07:25 PM
I think I was finally told the truth concerning ammo shortage.
While issues like fear of environmental regulations, increase in SWAT teams, military contracts, etc. have all played their part in the ammo shortage, the only reasons these factors have caused your local store to be short on ammunition is the main cause, hoarding.
So while you can show that military contracts have increased (the number of rounds can appear huge) it is minor compared to the production potential.
What has greatly changed is consumer demand, and since shooting is at a low (lack of ammunition), hoarding must be the cause. I know my stockpile increased, and I shoot less.
Of course, you could now start reviewing what causes the hoarding, but I feel in the end, thats just a dog chasing his tail. Sooner or later the hoarding will end. My concern is once that happens, you may find all the ammunition manufacturers are caught with their pants down, when demand drops, and supplies build and build.
S&W 642 (no-lock) with .38 Spl +P 135 GR Gold GDHP
Glock G31 & G33 with .357 Sig 125 GR. SXT Winchester Ranger
By JohnK87 in forum General Firearm Discussion
Last Post: April 21st, 2010, 02:18 PM
By jdcsail in forum General Firearm Discussion
Last Post: January 26th, 2010, 01:45 PM
By 1911luver in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
Last Post: May 4th, 2009, 08:57 PM
By p8riot in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
Last Post: August 21st, 2006, 10:39 PM
By craig45 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
Last Post: March 22nd, 2006, 12:49 PM
Search tags for this page
2011 ammo shortage
45 ammo shortage 2011
ammo shortage 2011
ammo shortage in illinois
ammunition shortage 2011
bullet shortage 2011
environmental regulations arizona
increasing regulation on ammunition
regulation on bullets
regulations on ammunition production
Click on a term to search for related topics.
» DefensiveCarry Sponsors