RBCD Ammo controversy

[vn6869]

This was completely unnecessary, has nothing to do whether your like the load or not, we are trying to get to the facts regarding this ammo.

OK OK Your mama

sorry couldn't resist , , ,

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[ExSoldier]

Ah I do have a caveat. I am told that RBCD has a different load they sell to "civilians" than the one they sell to the military. Civilians do not have access to the military loads. So if one of you active duty guys can get your armorer or chain of command to make an "off the shelf buy" thru channels for experimentation it's something you might consider. When I was a G4 guy on active duty I did this all the time for other products, no problems. Part of getting the mission accomplished.

[10thmtn]

Both the "civilian" and the "military" loads are listed on their website as "TFSP" (Total Fragmenting Soft Point). One could presume they are very similar?

I think this analysis, referenced in the original post, really says it all.

LeMas/RBCD Ammunition Analysis - M4Carbine.net Forums

If you're willing to give your business to folks who "embellish" the truth, go right ahead.

[rhinokrk]

...the definition of "blended metal technology" and the construction of the RBCD bullet ... is a terrible deception at worst. So what?

Trust this ammo?... The Florida LE department does. Why shouldn't we? What do we know that they don't know, or vice versa?

two things

First, why would a quality product need to be marketed with a blatant lie, a better approach would be "We use modern nylon technology to make our ammo faster and hard hitting".

Second, why would a PD pick any type of ammo for issue? Two words "Lowest Bid". Plus I've yet to see any first hand knowledge of any PD using it.

[bodhisattvya]

Can you point me to where I may read up on that? (besides RBCD's website)

Evan Marshall's 3rd book - Stopping Power

[OD*]

Yeah I have that, not real good science there either.

Thank you though.

[rhinokrk]

Evan Marshall's 3rd book - Stopping Power

Marshall and Sanow are and have bought and paid for at least a decade. What the hell is 'a one shot stop'... anyway.

[Texas Yankee]

"Can a fragmenting round work? Sure. Most thugs will likely stop if their arm is blown up. But...if it's a right handed motivated or drugged thug and his left arm is blown up...maybe not. Not before he kills you."

If you look at the stats, most BGs leave when they see a gun, most of those that don't, stop if they get shot anywhere. For those that will stop when shot, RBCD is just as effective as a standard JHP. For the 1 percent really tough guys, no hand gun round is going to be immediately effective unless it goes in the brain. But it seems to me a blown up hand or arm is more likely to shock them than a less than 1/2 inch hole through their hand or arm and into their body. Moreover with RBCD, you stand a good chance of hitting the artery in that hand or arm leading to bleed out.

Having said that I carry DPX after the first three rounds because if I have to make a head shot, I want to make sure it penetrates the skull.

The advantage of RBCD or any light bullet is that they are less likely to ricochet off hard surfaces and will lose velocity faster so that bystanders at a distance are less likely to be hurt. I understand that RBCD doesn't fragment when going through wallboard but it seems to me a light bullet would slow down faster going through wallboard than a heavier bullet and therefor be of less danger to a son or daughter behind the wall. I haven't seen that idea tested though.

Agree that there is no magic bullet. But different bullets may be better in different applications. Shot Placement and number is always key.

[ExSoldier]

Well said and I agree 100%

Also I like your rationale of the DPX after a certain number of initial rounds. I may follow that logic and replace half my initial mag's capacity of 15 +1 in the tube with 6 magsafe (as usual) and go DPX with the rest.

"Can a fragmenting round work? Sure. Most thugs will likely stop if their arm is blown up. But...if it's a right handed motivated or drugged thug and his left arm is blown up...maybe not. Not before he kills you."

If you look at the stats, most BGs leave when they see a gun, most of those that don't, stop if they get shot anywhere. For those that will stop when shot, RBCD is just as effective as a standard JHP. For the 1 percent really tough guys, no hand gun round is going to be immediately effective unless it goes in the brain. But it seems to me a blown up hand or arm is more likely to shock them than a less than 1/2 inch hole through their hand or arm and into their body. Moreover with RBCD, you stand a good chance of hitting the artery in that hand or arm leading to bleed out.

Having said that I carry DPX after the first three rounds because if I have to make a head shot, I want to make sure it penetrates the skull.

The advantage of RBCD or any light bullet is that they are less likely to ricochet off hard surfaces and will lose velocity faster so that bystanders at a distance are less likely to be hurt. I understand that RBCD doesn't fragment when going through wallboard but it seems to me a light bullet would slow down faster going through wallboard than a heavier bullet and therefor be of less danger to a son or daughter behind the wall. I haven't seen that idea tested though.

Agree that there is no magic bullet. But different bullets may be better in different applications. Shot Placement and number is always key.

[shooterX]

Well said and I agree 100%

Also I like your rationale of the DPX after a certain number of initial rounds. I may follow that logic and replace half my initial mag's capacity of 15 +1 in the tube with 6 magsafe (as usual) and go DPX with the rest.

ExSoldier before removing these from my EDC's and my house gun, I would load one in the chamber of my XDsc, followed by the first two in the mag, the remaining 7 would be federal hydro-shoks, now would be Corbon DPX's. My revolvers would have the first two RBCD's and the remaining with nyclads (.38 spcl.) or federal 125 gr. critical defense in my s&w model 66-1.

[vn6869]

ExSoldier before removing these from my EDC's and my house gun, I would load one in the chamber of my XDsc, followed by the first two in the mag, the remaining 7 would be federal hydro-shoks, now would be Corbon DPX's. My revolvers would have the first two RBCD's and the remaining with nyclads (.38 spcl.) or federal 125 gr. critical defense in my s&w model 66-1.

Gosh you have a whole grocery store of goodies there. Must be nice.

9 PAGES . . . this must be a hot subject - - - I didn't realize RBCD was that popular. And I just heard about them this year, my, my where have I been?

[ExSoldier]

9 PAGES . . . this must be a hot subject - - - I didn't realize RBCD was that popular. And I just heard about them this year, my, my where have I been?

Actually it's NOT so popular. The majority of this thread has been the pro RBCD (in the minority) versus their detractors in the majority.

In the end...THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE... OOPS, Sorry. Wrong movie quote. What I meant to say is that IN THE END, it's all about shot placement rather than projectile configuration, caliber or brand. Right?

[vn6869]

What I meant to say is that IN THE END, it's all about shot placement rather than projectile configuration, caliber or brand. Right?

You are soooo right exsoldier.

[Texas Yankee]

ShooterX - Your proposal is exactly what I do. RBCD in the chamber and the top two rounds in the mag. The rest are Corbon DX although with my 9 mm Hipower it is more like 13 rounds in a 15 round mag. In my 9mm J Frame I use all Corbon DPX just because I trust that round better in that gun. In my Taurus 44 mag revolver, I have two rounds of Glaser Silver, just because I already had it followed by Corbon DPX.

[BigLaw]

I was messing around with a couple retired vests at the range. I shot Ranger T, Hornady Tap, and WWB in 40, 45 and 9mm. The only round that went through was the LE RBCD .40