A good defensive 10mm round?

A good defensive 10mm round?

This is a discussion on A good defensive 10mm round? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So my .40S&W chambered Fusion Tact-5 recently got converted to 10mm and it should be in the hands of the postal service as I type ...

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Thread: A good defensive 10mm round?

  1. #1
    Member Array HiFreq47's Avatar
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    A good defensive 10mm round?

    So my .40S&W chambered Fusion Tact-5 recently got converted to 10mm and it should be in the hands of the postal service as I type this.

    On top of 500 rounds of range ammo, I've got 100 rounds of Georgia-Arms 180gr JHP (bullet is a Gold-Dot) @ 1100fps on order for defense. I'd prefer to use something a little hotter since, let's be honest, 180gr @ 1100 is really .40S&W power, but I'm not looking for too much penetration. I was looking at Double-Tap's controlled expansion rounds @ 1250fps, but a friend of mine used them on feral dogs and while they expanded perfectly, they penetrated the entire dog lengthwise - way too much for defense on a human target.

    I'm hoping to find a round with over 600ft-lbs of muzzle energy but limited penetration. I'm not stuck to any particular weight either.
    Billy
    Fusion Tact-5 in a Pure Kustom Black-Ops Pro
    Glock 23 in a Barber Leatherworks IWB


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    The 10mm tends to overpenetrate with the 180 grain bullets at full power. I'd go lighter, 155 to 165 grain range. 1200+fps shouldn't be a problem there. Hornady offers a 155 grain XTP which should be good, Federal has (or at least had) a 155 grain JHP at full power, and the smaller outfits like Georgia Arms and Double Tap have multiple choices.
    -Landric

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    Distinguished Member Array Wasabi's Avatar
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    I carry DT 165g Gold Dot in my G29SF.

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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    I know this isn't the hottest and greatest, but my 10mm is normally loaded with 175 Silvertips @ 1290fps-640ft/lbs.

    I've seen their results on whitetails, and am suitably impressed.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    Cuda66:

    That's what I have my Witness loaded with. I think the Silvertip is the most powerful, readily-available commercial self-defense load, too.
    "...bad decisions that turn out well often make heroes."


    Gary D. Mitchell, A Sniper's Journey: The Truth About the Man and the Rifle, P. 103, NAL Caliber books, 2006, 1st Ed.

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    New Member Array devildog66's Avatar
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    I second the use of Double tap ammo. Widest selection of 10mm bullet weights and designs and they use Speer GD in their defensive loads. Cost is about 36 per 50.

  7. #7
    Member Array HiFreq47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildog66 View Post
    I second the use of Double tap ammo. Widest selection of 10mm bullet weights and designs and they use Speer GD in their defensive loads. Cost is about 36 per 50.
    Actually, DT's offerings in the GD is an extremely poor performer. Gold-Dot doesn't make a 10mm bullet, they make a .40S&W bullet that doesn't work at all when accelerated to hot 10mm velocities.

    The same friend that ran the tests with the controlled expansion rounds did so with the Double-Tap Gold Dots as well and the bullets failed completely. Bullet never reached anywhere near typical expanded diameter found at .40-cal velocities ... the petals simply folded completely back or some broke off altogether. Not a single bullet could be recovered, despite all shots being made lengthwise against the feral dogs. Without ever reaching full expansion, bullets shot straight through and out the other side.

    While the controlled expansion rounds definitely penetrated farther than is preferable, they were made for 10mm velocities and expanded properly at hot 10mm speeds.
    Billy
    Fusion Tact-5 in a Pure Kustom Black-Ops Pro
    Glock 23 in a Barber Leatherworks IWB

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Try Double Tap's 135gr JHP. Plenty of energy and a great shooting load.

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    New Member Array FMCDH's Avatar
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    I've asked the 40SW vs 10mm question on other forums, and while the KE arguement is pretty straightforward, it seems that besides anecdotal evidence, there hasn't been a recent controlled experiment on the effectiveness of 10mm vs 40SW. The posts above highlight how 40/10mm bullet design is heavily weighted towards the 40SW cartridges. Is it just that there has been and there is going to be so much work being done on optimizing 40SW, that the inherent external ballistic advantage of the 10MM doesn't matter, when we are talking about self-defense from two legged animals? Bears and boars may be a different story.

  10. #10
    Member Array gglockster's Avatar
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    I like the Hornady 155 gr JHP/XTP round for self defense, but out of doors and in a revolver I go the other way with the 200 gr JHP/XTP Hornady. I have a friend that swears by the 180 gr Hydra-shock in his Kimber Eclipse 10mm. Unfortunately, I do not have any real world data.

  11. #11
    Member Array Erich1B's Avatar
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    My G29 is my main CCW.

    I either carry with Double Tap's 165gr Remington Golden Sabers, or Double Tap's 155gr. Barnes XPB bullets.
    Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gglockster View Post
    I like the Hornady. I have a friend that swears by the 180 gr Hydra-shock in his Kimber Eclipse 10mm
    .

    That's what my brothers agency used when they had the G20 JMO H/D
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; July 23rd, 2009 at 03:12 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tags.
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Too many people try to push the 10mm as fast as possible. The 10mm certainly is capable of impressive velocity for a service pistol with all bullet weights. For most defensive purposes the standard loads of a 180gr at 1275fps and 200gr at 1200fps will do plenty fine. I am not a personal fan of a lighter than 180gr bullet in the 10mm, in fact I consider a 180gr to be a lightweight and much prefer a stout 200gr JHP at 1200fps. My company's load of a 200gr XTP at 1200fps is my personal carry load.

    Look at the Double Tap Ammo ballistic charts on GT. Notice the 135gr Nosler JHP did better at 40 S&W velocity than 10mm velocity. What does that tell us? 1600fps is too fast for the bullet unless you want catastrophic fragmentation. I think the Nosler should be driven no faster than 1500fps and most likely closer to 1425-1450fps. My company loads the 135gr JHP in 40 S&W to 1425fps and it's our number one seller at retail. Sure I load a few up to 1600fps for small game hunting when I'm bored but even then it's pretty messy.

    My recommendations for 10mm loads are

    135gr 1500fps
    155gr 1400fps
    165gr 1350fps
    180gr 1250fps
    200gr 1200fps

    I like the XTP bullet a lot and it's probably the best at holding up to 10mm velocities.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  14. #14
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    ...
    My recommendations for 10mm loads are

    135gr 1500fps
    155gr 1400fps
    165gr 1350fps
    180gr 1250fps
    200gr 1200fps

    I like the XTP bullet a lot and it's probably the best at holding up to 10mm velocities.
    I use the doubletap wfngc hardcast for bear defense. I did get the 165gr SD rounds from Doubletap for 2 legged predators. I never gave it too much afterthought because I only carry the 10mm during hunting season (which happens to be Sept through Jan).

    You hit on one of my concerns about the 10mm round, that bullets designed for 40sw are used in 10mm.

    My belief is that in handgun velocities, penetration and expansion are key. I like the 10mm for the penetration capabilities for black bear. But for 2 legged predators, I am not sure what has the best combination of penetration and expansion.

    Do you have any penetration / expansion / weight retention results on your bullets? Especially your
    Bullet: 200gr XTP
    Velocity: 1200 fps
    Energy: 640 ft lbs

    I am in the market for (non-woods) 2 legged carry rounds for this fall winter and am interested in your offerings.

    thx.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Haven't shot jello yet. My guy that helps with R&D is out on vacation. When he gets back, the plan is to make some jello and hit the range. Results will be posted on my site when they are done.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

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