Why the Nine!

This is a discussion on Why the Nine! within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Found an article for you 9mm lovers out there One of the best reality based firearms instructors, Gabriel Suarez chooses the Nine! Heres why!! GABE'S ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array ErikGr7's Avatar
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    Why the Nine!

    Found an article for you 9mm lovers out there

    One of the best reality based firearms instructors, Gabriel Suarez chooses the Nine! Heres why!!


    GABE'S CALIBER CHOICE

    I get asked what I carry alot. Recently we have gotten into quite a few discussions about my choice of calibers as well as why. Specially when they hear that it is a 9mm. So here goes --

    1). 9mm holds more ammo and more ammo is a definite asset in a gunfight. I had a student that was attacked by three guys and his 1911 barely had enough. Another bad guy and he would have been screwed.

    2). With modern ammo there is virtually no difference in performance in the typical CCW loads (9mm, 40, 45).

    3). Ammo commonality and magazine commonality are a big issue. If you carry a 50 Auto +P+ and your dainty wife carries a mere 9mm you cannot support each other in the way that would be best.

    4). Anyone who believes in the reliability of One Shot Stops with a pistol is an idiot that has never seen any action outside his daydreams.

    Look gents, if it makes you feel better to carry a 45, do it. If you think that extra millimeter of size will help, then carry a 45. If you think you'd feel just fine at Mumbai with your 1911/45, then cool. Drive on. Its not my business to convice you otherwise.

    Me? I have seen lots of people shot to be able to say this.

    ALL HANDGUN CALIBERS ARE UNPREDICTABLE.

    I have seen guys get shot with just about everything and nothing will work every time. I know of a guy shot in the chest with a shotgun slug and who not only survived but kept fighting. The ONLY sure way, outside of a clean brain shot, and that is still in question, is to multiply the damage. How do we do that? by lots and lots of holes....hopefully in chest and face.

    One of my contacts in South America has a score of 47...many of those with a Glock 17 with Military FMJ. He prevailed by being generous with his trigger and accurate in his shooting. Good enough for me. For me, its a 9mm Glock 17 with alot of Corbon DPX rounds.

    Modern Technique schools created a cult of the 1911/45 and believe that it would work 19 times out of 20. Yet, Fairbairn, a man who was operational in the same general era as Cooper, states that one man he knew emptied his 45 into a thug whom he had to club into unconsciousness with the empty pistol after he kept fighting. So much for legendary stopping power.

    That is not to say the 45 is worthless, as it is certainly not. If I was limited by foolish laws to 10 rounds or less, or to FMJ ammo, I might opt for such a pistol, but I think the lack of capacity is a serious limitation.

    I investigated an attempted suicide once where a man shot himself in the head with a 1911. He lived and walked out of the ER. What does that prove? Nothing other than the 1911/45 is NOT the death ray excalibur its cultists would have us all assume.

    I was also present in an entry where a drug dealer was kiled with one shot from a Sig P226/9mm +P+ 115 gr JHP. The man fell before the Point Man could hit him again. What does that prove? That the 9mm is not the POS, or the "45 set on stun" MT people like to call it.

    For perspective I also saw several gang killings with 22 pistols. No lack of stopping power there.

    In my educated and experienced opinion, ALL handgun calibers will do about the same things in flesh. I have had ER docs tell me directly that it is impossible to tell what caliber a bullet is in the ER by the damage it does. We have info of the same things happening with just about every caliber out there. Chuck Taylor told me once of a Viet Cong who got his entire shoulder blown off by a 50 BMG that kept charging until he bled out. So again IMHO, the arguement of the Power Of The Pistol is simply a silly idea.

    We carry them for convenience and not for power. The secret to dropping the adversary is not the caliber, it is the volume and the placement. Period.

    So carry the biggest weapon you can control. That does not mean caliber. It means weapon size. And that includes capacity. For some guys with big hands it may mean a Glock 21, or a double stack Para Ordnance. For me, both of those pistols have an umanageable girth. I cannot shoot them as well as a Glock 17/22. If those who advocate them can, then I support their choice 100%.

    I have a friend named Pierre. he is a big man with big hands and can shoot a Desert Eagle as well as I can my Glock 17. It would be foolish for me to force him to carry a Glock 17 and equally so for him to tell me that only his D.E. was suitable for combat.

    Choose based on shootability - ignore the caliber...can you manage the weapon's size in your hand, in daily carry? Then choose on capacity. More ammo is more better. You will NOT be dropping one man with one shot. It will be taking more. One man, no big deal. Two men, maybe not a big deal. Three men and your seven shots begin looking bad. Four men and you will be forced to reload. But not with a high capacity weapon. Caliber is the last consideration to me.

    Anything in 9mm, 40 S&W, 357 Sig, 45 ACP, 38 Sp. will work about the same. So CHOOSE WHAT YOU LIKE. As I said, mine is a Glock 17 with three magazines of Corbon DPX (and a couple of happy sticks thrown in).
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    Gabe Suarez
    ninjahippie likes this.

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    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
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    "Happy Sticks" ??

    Interesting read but what are happy sticks?
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

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    Senior Member Array ErikGr7's Avatar
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    Interesting read but what are happy sticks?
    I don't know?

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I think he may have been smoking his happy sticks
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    I hope it doesn't mean this!

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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Sacrilege! How dare anyone defy the most holy and sacred .45 ACP 1911!

    Of course you know, this means war!
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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    Quote Originally Posted by MgoBlue View Post
    I hope it doesn't mean this!
    #1 OR #2???
    CCW permit holder for Idaho, Utah, Pennsylvania, Maine and New Hampshire. I can carry in your country but not my own.

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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    It all boils down to the guy behind the gun, as it always has; the .45ACP round was designed historically to be powerful enough to bring down a charging horseman at 25 yards, since at it's inception, cavalry charges were still considered valid military tactics (until gallipoli and WWI). During SPECWAR operations in the war on terror, I have read stories about operators using their 1911 pistols make on-shot kills out to 50 yards; In one of Mas Ayoobs' columns, an LEO made a 70 yard shot with one, stopping an attacker with a rifle.

    The .45 caliber bullet/cartridge combination has proved itself on the battlefield and the street more than any other cartridge, period. magazine capacity may be an issue, but with today's CCW needs, a short single stack .45 is stiil a viable option.

    I would feel fine carrying a .357 magnum revolver. Why? Because I know how many rounds I have and will make those shots count. If I don't, then you know what happens as well as I do. In the case of the infamous Miami FBI gun battle, it was an agent using a .38 backup revolver who finally ended the fight. The mighty wondernines everyone had been touting as the best thing next to apple pie, had for the most part run dry........

    I would also feel fine carrying any 9mm pistol; why? Again, because I would know my round count, and more importantly, my ability to place those shots accordingly....regardless of caliber. There also have been numerous stories about one-shot 9mm stops, and an equal number of stories about LEOs running dry because they emptied 2 or more magazines at an assailant, failing to stop them. In some cases, it has been several LEOs.

    My impressions regarding caliber choices really boil down to what an individual shooter can handle safely, and effectively. My point here is that it doesn't matter what you use, because they all work if the shooter does their part. There was an old adage truly spoken by Jeff Cooper: "“Blessed are those who, in the face of death, think only about the front sight.”

    Absolutely right......
    wellpoison, OlCop and Eric357 like this.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Happy sicks are Glock 18 magazines.

    33 round 9mm Glock magazines. They fit in all 9mm Glocks from the small 26 to the full frame guns (17/34).

    They hold a lot of ammo, they fit in every 9mm Glock, they fit in 9mm Kel-Tec carbines, so they are compatable with a shoulder fired folding long gun...they make OK impact weapons when full.

    Ergo, having them on hand makes one happy.

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    Senior Member Array 2ndsupporter's Avatar
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    If capacity is the name of the game, then I would think my XD45 is on the right track with 13+1.

    I can see his point and agree with alot of what he is saying. I think until you hit and sever that pumping station (Ted Nudgents words) you run the risk of shooting a BG on PCP or some other drug ( or just pure rage)and not stopping them in time.

    So shot placement is got to be the most important thing to consider in the moment of a deadly confrontation. That being said, do you really have time to aim, or do you shoot in the general direction and hope for the best.

    This is where trainning plays the most important part; how well can you draw aim and shoot and if need be how well can you draw and shoot from the hip!

    All questions that will certinly affect us differently God forbid that situation should ever occur!
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    Member Array jjkjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndsupporter View Post
    If capacity is the name of the game, then I would think my XD45 is on the right track with 13+1.
    thats why i think my XD9sc with the new 13+1 is good.
    XD9sc
    Ruger LCP 380
    NAA 22 mini mag w/holster grip
    S&W 38 model 10
    NRA member

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    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    I'm generally not impressed with this guy. He is way too Tacticool for my tastes. I read an article he wrote not too long ago where he referred to CHP permit holders as "civilian CCW permit operators". What a bunch of BS.

    I'm not going to run down his choice for a Glock 17 9mm, he is free to choose what he wants to carry. However, I've always been a fan of the big, heavy bullets. Those are not available in 9mm pistols.
    OlCop likes this.
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    If I am in a situation where I need that many rounds, then I am somewhere i shouldn't have been and should have brought a rifle or shotgun as a primary and handgun as backup.
    Wunderneun likes this.

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    I still like the bigger holes of a .45...
    OlCop likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooterX View Post
    If I am in a situation where I need that many rounds, then I am somewhere i shouldn't have been and should have brought a rifle or shotgun as a primary and handgun as backup.
    But by that logic, if you need a gun AT ALL you shouldn't have been there and/or should have brought the artillery.

    Look, pick whatever caliber/platform you want, but don't create scenarios to support your choice - make your choice based on likely scenarios.
    Alarm Guy likes this.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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