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Hornady Personal Defense

6K views 41 replies 16 participants last post by  shaneotool 
#1 ·
I am trying to locate some Hornady Personal Defense 40S&W 180grain ammo. Everywhere I look, they are sold out of it. I want to buy some to keep in my open carry gun as I only have FMJ right now. Anyone know of anywhere that has this ammo in stock?
 
#2 ·
Are you dead set on Hornady? IMO and the opinion of ballistics experts there are many better options.

ammunitiontogo.com has the Hornady TAP CQ 180gr ammo in stock. 20 rounds for $16.95
 
#4 ·
Are you dead set on Hornady? IMO and the opinion of ballistics experts there are many better options.
Everyone should switch to Hornady. That will leave more Gold Dots Ranger T's and HST's on the shelf for me.
 
#9 ·
Can't find ammo, the manufacturers allegedly can't keep up with the demand, makes one wonder what's cooking and should I leave the planet...best bet is a heavy gun that you can use as a club...reminds me of the USMC rules for a gunfight guidelines...
 
#11 ·
Pick a round that:

1. Feeds reliably in your pistol;

2. Penetrates 12-15 inches in gel tests; and

3. Reliably expands (understanding that none are 100%).

Low recoil, low flash, corrosion resistance, and crimped cases to resist setback are also good features.

Beyond that, they will all work. In one test, a certain bullet may be marginally better. In another test, you will see a different result. You can overthink this and make yourself crazy!
 
#15 ·
I want to let you know, at the risk of being flamed, that if you are shooting any caliber less powerful than the 9mm/.38 Special (for self defense) should never employ expanding bullets. The reasons for this are:

a) slower moving bullets may not reliably expand;

b) "putting the brakes" on slower moving projectiles will almost certainly prevent the penetration needed to acheive the desired results.

"Shot placement is king, penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins." - Erich Martel
 
#18 ·
I can't speak to the ballistics because I don't have the ability to do controlled ballistics testing. All I can go by is what I read and what I experience at the range. American Rifleman & Handgun magazine both gave favorable reviews. I took 50 rounds of Critical Defense and 50 rounds of Golden Sabers to the range today (along with 100 rounds of WWB FMJ) to do some testing. Yep... it was an expensive trip... but I want to know that what I'm feeding through my EDC is reliable. Both the Critical Defense & Golden Sabers both fed reliably with no FTEs or FTFs. Now I know there will be a difference between 124g and 115g but I didn't think it would be THAT noticeable. Even shooting the 115g Critical Defense side by side with the WWB 115g... it was noticeably less muzzle flip. I had great groupings with the Golden Sabers... but VERY tight and even better groupings with the Critical Defense. I went through 5 targets for each load (10 shots per target) and ever time the Critical Defense had better placement than the Golden Sabers. The control was better, less recoil, and it didn't seem as loud either but maybe that was just me.

Nothing against the Golden Sabers... it is a great, tested load that is very reliable. Ballistics being the only ??? when it comes to the Critical Defense... if we can get some consecutive good reports on the CD then I'm sure I'll probably choose that to load my EDC. I'll probably go through here in the next few weeks and throw another 50 or so down range just to make sure... but if the next 50 were like the first 50 then I'm really going to enjoy it. They were a pleasure to shoot. BTW... the XD9sc is so much fun to shoot! I love it!
 
#21 ·
If someone who is paid to test bullet designs, investigate the wound characteristics, and give recommendations doesn't recommend it I won't use it. That's that.

Think about why the Winchester Ranger series, Federal HST series, and Speer Gold Dots always get recommended. They meet a set of requirements that some others do not.
 
#23 ·
If by Try some you mean shoot at targets ok...as good as any FMJ.

compare the results of it vs HST, Ranger T, Gold Dot, Golden Saber, DPX etc in a ballistic, wounding, and expansion test.

I may seem like I'm really harping on something here and I am, I'm just a BIG proponent of realistic ballistics gel testing by 3rd parties. I am not a fan of any manufacturer who makes claims without real results and allowing a 3rd party to do the testing (MagSafe ammo for example), and am also not a fan of companies who fail a test then are allowed to send another sample and test again with completely different results. IMO that test should have been invalidated and another box be taken off the retail shelf and tested. Manufacturer may have hand picked the rounds in that particular shipment that was sent to Dr. Roberts after the failed testing. Plus, Hornady is about the only company I see who produces a video of their testing and puts it on the web. WHy would you need to do that? Shouldn't real world LEO accounts and expert 3rd party ballistic testing be enough? Oh wait...it's not.

I'm not a fan of marketing unless the results back it up when tested. Am I hating on hornady? Not really, I simply believe results should always speak for themselves.
 
#24 ·
For those of you waiting for FBI passing ballistics testing... I hope you are not holding your breath! This round was manufactured with a distinct purpose in mind... close quarters self defense round. It is NOT an FBI round. It is NOT a LEO round. It was not designed to be shot through glass, through walls, through plywood etc. What it was designed for... it does so consistently and well. It was designed with CC in mind and takes into account the overwhelming majority of civilian self defense scenarios. *Most* people are not going to be defending themselves shooting through walls, shooting through glass, shooting through car doors, etc... Some of you may... that is why I say *most*. A lot of people won't feel comfortable unless they know their load can go through X amounts of Y hard material... and if they feel that way then I definitely don't think they will or should use this particular ammo. If you want a reliable ammo that covers hitting a bad guy through multiple layers of clothing (not car doors, glass, walls, tires, safes, refrigerators, etc...) then maybe this ammo might be the right stuff for you.

Once again... it does not and will not meet FBI standards or most LEO standards when it comes to shooting through most stuff out there... but I don't think Hornady has ever... not even once said it was designed for the FBI or every day LEO. So if having what the men in black or men in blue have is that important to you... please don't buy it.
 
#25 ·
Perhaps you forgot where Dr. Gary Roberts is recommending "Self Defense" ammo. Not ammo for the LEO. Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

He even has a writeup on that page for overpenetration inside the home. If that's not written with the civilian in mind, I dunno what else to say. Having said that, Hornady isn't on the list.

Let me reiterate what I said previously. There are people who use WWB JHP and are comfortable with that. It's ok. Really, even Dr. Roberts says you are free to choose any ammo you want. The recommendations he has made come from specific testing and data from himself and other ballistic experts from the FBI and elsewhere. It's not necessarily set in stone as being the only rounds that do the job, rather it's what the experts who have tested pretty much everything out there deem best. I'm not, and never did say Hornady rounds won't work. I'm only saying it doesn't make the list because of a specific failure to meet a very specific set of requirements. What those requirements are I'm not 100% sure and have never tried to be an expert. I only know what I've read, and what in my mind is more hype than results. Heck, even the new PDX1 ammo is marketed as the ammo that the FBI chose. It may be, but I wouldn't buy it based only on that.

Above all, practice with whatever you choose so that you're comfortable putting shots on target. All else is secondary really.
 
#30 ·
My personal choice is Federal HST's
although i could not get my hands on enough of them when i bought the new Kimber UC2 so i got some Winchester Ranger Talon's instead & i must say it's quite impressive also :yup:
 
#31 ·
GoldenLoki.com

FWIW...some tests, including CD and my current carry round, EFMJ.

I can't seem to find the 124 gr EFMJ anywhere, so I got some CD. May try it tomorrow. Given how pointy it is, it should feed in my G26 just fine.
 
#32 ·
Lots of defense ammo is hard to find. Especially in .45acp and 9mm. Hard to be picky with those calibers anymore.
 
#35 ·
How could you look at the GoldenLoki results and decide that the Hornady CD is the way to go?

The Hornady CD had some of the most anemic expansion results and stiff failed to penetrate as deeply as most of the premium brand ammunition. Even the reloaded Georgia Arms and old-tech Starfires went as deep and expanded better.

If I had to make an informed choice from that data, I would choose the two larger Cor Bon loads or the Remington Golden Sabers.

Your job is to place the bullet accurately... A self-defense bullets job is to penetrate bigger and expand larger. Wouldn't you expect the latest and most advanced bullet to be the top in class in at least one of its tasks?

As I see the GoldenLoki results, the Golden Saber gets an A+ with expansion and a B+ with penetration. The two larger Cor Bon's get an A with expansion and A+ with penetration. The Hornady CD got a C- at best with the both expansion and penetration. I won't even grade the non-expanding bullets, as they are one-trick-ponies.

Hey! Maybe that is what Hornady CD REALLY means. A bullet that grades somewhere between a C and a D.

As always... Shoot what you want.
 
#36 ·
I don't know how to respond to gglass, but I would like to note that that testing is incomplete. No results for Ranger T 147gr and the Gold Dot 124gr +p among others.
 
#37 ·
I agree that the testing is woefully incomplete, but then again I did not offer it as evidence that Hornady CD is something special. I merely tried to make sense of the data provided.

I would also reiterate that it would be pretty hard to make a case for the superiority of Hornady CD from the results of the GoldenLoki testing. It faired alright, but it did not stand out in any significant way.
 
#38 ·
Given today's ammo situation for 9mm defense rounds, I would probably give everything readily available a fair look. Obviously if I found some HST, Ranger T, or Gold Dots I would get those before other options. However, I think that if I were buying today I would not be so choosy. I just did a quick search on the usual places and honestly did not find much outside of gunbroker which was a bit more expensive than I would like. Granted I was looking for the 50 round boxes.
 
#40 ·
I was referring to the others(HST, Ranger T, Gold Dot). They are available in 50 round boxes, but in 9mm cannot be found.
 
#41 ·
Well, the CD worked just fine in my G26.

Not the best penetration or expansion, true...but the idea is that it is supposed to expand almost all the time, despite thick clothing.

As I said before, most self defense ammo will do the job if you do yours. No need to over think things...especially when ANY ammo is still so hard to get.
 
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