Can the 25 acp be made an effective round?

This is a discussion on Can the 25 acp be made an effective round? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I Have Your Answer! I have applied mathematics to your question and have found the perfect answer. The average .25 ACP cartridge has a muzzle ...

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Thread: Can the 25 acp be made an effective round?

  1. #16
    Member Array gglass's Avatar
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    I Have Your Answer!

    I have applied mathematics to your question and have found the perfect answer.

    The average .25 ACP cartridge has a muzzle energy of 64.93 ft/lbs, and the .25 NAA cartridge has a muzzle energy of 127.00 ft/lbs.

    Let's say that your firearm is the NAA Guardian .25 sub-compact pistol. This pistol weighs 13.57 oz. empty, which is to say it weighs 5,936.88 grains. If you could throw it at 95 mph, which is the speed that Major League baseball pitchers throw a fast ball. That velocity works out to be 139.36 fps, and will yield 257.51 ft/lbs of energy on your target.

    This tells us that you will have a much higher energy on target if you just become more proficient in throwing your empty .25 caliber handgun. (Please be sure to remove the ammunition from the handgun before throwing to avoid an accidental discharge... Safety first.)

    .25 ACP Cartridge
    Projectile weight - 45 gr
    Projectile velocity - 804 fps
    Projectile energy - 64.93 ft/lbs

    .25 NAA Cartridge
    Projectile weight - 35 gr
    Projectile velocity - 1275 fps
    Projectile energy - 127.00 ft/lbs

    Thrown Handgun
    Projectile weight - 5,936.88 gr
    Projectile velocity - 139.36 fps
    Projectile energy - 257.51 ft/lbs

    Behold The Power of Mathematics!

    Check it out for yourself: http://www.classifiercalc.com/misc_calcs/me.php


    Safety Notice - Whether it is shot or thrown, you can still put an eye out with a .25 caliber handgun!
    Last edited by gglass; October 14th, 2009 at 10:44 AM.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    Sure it can be an effective round; it can be an effective precursor to having the gun shooting it being turned into a very effective rectal thermometer if you attempt to use it on the right BG.....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, there's nothing that can be done to improve the two factors working against the .25, size and velocity. While the velocity could be boosted, the guns designed for this caliber could not stand up to the increased pressure. If you expanded the size, well of course it would no longer be a .25.
    You would be better off with a .22, which is smaller but has significantly more velocity, or better yet, a .22 Magnum.
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  5. #19
    Member Array das38spl's Avatar
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    Even Massad Ayoob has stated that, were he forced to carry ONLY a .25ACP...he would "probably violate a basic firearm defense principle....and go for a head shot, rather than COM..."
    I'm good with that philosophy...and I'll stick to my 9MM or .38Spl....

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
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    As long as it's purpose and limits are known and understood, there's no reason a person can't defend themselves with any firearm including a .25acp. Hirtenberger .25acp is at least a little more powerful round than most and what I'd want if carrying the round.

    25 ACP (6.35x15.5mm) -- 35 gr Frangible, 1150 fps, 103 ftlbs. Glaser Safety Slug, safe plinking, 2.4 inch barrel
    25 ACP + P (6.35x15.5mm) -- 50 gr TMJ, 850 fps, 80 ftlbs. Custom Cartridge, shoots through a 2x4 pine construction beam

    I disagree on those that claim a rimfire .22lr would be a better choice just on the basis of having the more reliable igntion of the centerfire .25acp. There's no great performance difference, but rimfire reliability is less than centerfire.

    Of course the true value of any tiny firearm is in it's inherent discreet nature. A PSA or TPH can go places many other guns cannot.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    It's true that the poor .25acp has no chance of being beefed up. Does that mean it can't or won't be used as a defensive or offensive caliber? No. In the scope of things, shot placement, size of the target, what kinds of drugs coursing through veins and arteries, and just the pure meaness of some folks are all contributing factors when using one. I would rather have one than not if that were the only caliber available.

    Not to start caliber war or get flamed, but a .25 can help and it sure beats hand to hand combat if you are not well trained for that. It can slow your opponent down to allow you to escape. While I won't rely on one, this is not to say that I haven't ever carried one in a pinch. I would rather have something with a bit more punch.
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  8. #22
    New Member Array ghettomedic's Avatar
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    Probably if it was loaded in some sort of minigun, around 6000 RPM or so.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    25 ACP, well take the ACP off & ad a 06 onthe back = 25 06 ; )
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    After I semi retired, for about a year I carried the North American 25 NAA, in my pocket. From this forum I found out the Kel-Tec 380 was reliable, and it was the same size and it actually weighed less, so I traded it for it. Loaded with +P 380 I feel it is allot more capable than any 25.

  11. #25
    Ex Member Array Sunday's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies

    Thanks for all the replies! I especially enjoyed the reply about throwing the 25 acp handgun to generate more energy than the round.

  12. #26
    Member Array gglass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunday View Post
    Thanks for all the replies! I especially enjoyed the reply about throwing the 25 acp handgun to generate more energy than the round.
    I hope it made you smile.
    "Let me guess... This isn't about the alcohol or tobacco."

  13. #27
    Member Array tmizzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gglass View Post
    I Have Your Answer!

    This tells us that you will have a much higher energy on target if you just become more proficient in throwing your empty .25 caliber handgun. (Please be sure to remove the ammunition from the handgun before throwing to avoid an accidental discharge... Safety first.)

    .25 ACP Cartridge
    Projectile weight - 45 gr
    Projectile velocity - 804 fps
    Projectile energy - 64.93 ft/lbs

    .25 NAA Cartridge
    Projectile weight - 35 gr
    Projectile velocity - 1275 fps
    Projectile energy - 127.00 ft/lbs

    Thrown Handgun
    Projectile weight - 5,936.88 gr
    Projectile velocity - 139.36 fps
    Projectile energy - 257.51 ft/lbs

    Behold The Power of Mathematics!

    Safety Notice - Whether it is shot or thrown, you can still put an eye out with a .25 caliber handgun!
    I didn't check your math but you must have alot of spare time on your hands. Now that is some funny stuff.
    To all you current and former military ... thank you for your service! Let no one forget that the sacrifices you have made allow us the freedoms we enjoy.

  14. #28
    Member Array Marvin Knox's Avatar
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    If you only had that for some reason, I suppose it's more effective than a Karate chop. (Let me rethink that for a while.)

    If I used one, I'd concentrate on a bullet that provided penetration more than expansion and hope for a fatal placement of the shots.

    Bottom line to me though is - why would a person carry one of those when there are large calibers that are almost as small?

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    The .25 caliber is very pricey and I haven't seen much ammo for it.
    I would not stake my life on this gun I would at least buy the 380

  16. #30
    Member Array gunfan's Avatar
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    The .25 ACP can be loaded to reach a maximum velocity of 933 fps and yield about 99 fpe with a 51-grain Remington FMJ. Out of respect to bmgillvray I will NOT reveal how much Unique propellant was used to achieve these velocities. (suffice it to say that the load was 125% over the recommended maximum amount!) This is the only way that one could guarantee the round could penetrate the average human skull.

    I have drawn the conclusion that if I am going to employ the .25 ACP in self-defense, I plan on shooting the assailant in the neck/throat region. This will increase the likelihood of rupturing their larynx, trachea, or pierce a blood vessel. This should increase my chances of surviving a violent altercation.

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