Speer Gold Dots Practice Ammo

This is a discussion on Speer Gold Dots Practice Ammo within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by MitchellCT The idea that a shooting's kosher/notkosher status being determined on the ammo being in spec or slightly over spec is laughable. ...

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Thread: Speer Gold Dots Practice Ammo

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    The idea that a shooting's kosher/notkosher status being determined on the ammo being in spec or slightly over spec is laughable.

    A police use of force incident is judged under numerous constitutional standards to determine if the police have violated someone's rights in their use of deadly force, and if such use of force is objectively and subjectively reasonable.

    The spec of the ammo in use at any given time is a negligable issue, that may be...MAY be in issue if the use of force was justified; however, the ammunition did not function as intended and resulted in a shoot through injuring a bystander...

    And even in that case, liability wouldn't be laid at the police's feet, but the ammo's manufacturer.

    If your ammo is not fit for LE use, it is not fit for YOUR defensive use either.
    Believe what you want. It's left overs from an order, they don't want it to be sold to LEO and it goes to consumer channels. End of story.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

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  3. #17
    Member Array stoprilshoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    Believe what you want. It's left overs from an order, they don't want it to be sold to LEO and it goes to consumer channels. End of story.

    your the one who is believing what you want. your not listening to what federal and speer have to say, only what the man trying to sell you the ammo is saying.


    end of story? if you use it and it fails or somebody believes the FUD you are spreading and it fails on them...


    just sayin'


  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    The idea that a shooting's kosher/notkosher status being determined on the ammo being in spec or slightly over spec is laughable.

    A police use of force incident is judged under numerous constitutional standards to determine if the police have violated someone's rights in their use of deadly force, and if such use of force is objectively and subjectively reasonable.

    The spec of the ammo in use at any given time is a negligable issue, that may be...MAY be in issue if the use of force was justified; however, the ammunition did not function as intended and resulted in a shoot through injuring a bystander...

    And even in that case, liability wouldn't be laid at the police's feet, but the ammo's manufacturer.

    If your ammo is not fit for LE use, it is not fit for YOUR defensive use either.
    Absolutely!!!!

    There's NO ammunition manufacturer that's going to distribute ammunition that they know to be unsafe FOR ANY REASON. The liability issues are simply too great. They'll trash an entire production run before they'll knowingly let any of it out of the factory. If it's marked Not For LE Use, there's some reason other than safety.

    The amount of complete BS that gets posted on the Internet and passed around in gun stores is pathetic.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    If your ammo is not fit for LE use, it is not fit for YOUR defensive use either.
    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    Believe what you want. It's left overs from an order, they don't want it to be sold to LEO and it goes to consumer channels. End of story.
    I think you are misreading MitchellCT's statement. He's absolutely correct and if I read his post correctly, he's poking holes in the idea that it's somehow unsafe for LE but ok for civilians.

    Am I correct, Mitchell?

    And I agree with your assessment of the origin of the ammo in question, cmdrdredd. I've bought such ammo more than once. In fact, just this past month.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  6. #20
    New Member Array P J 234's Avatar
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    There was some Speer Gold Dot recall ammo floating around for a while being sold like this. I don't recall the reason for the recall, or if one was even given, but a lot of it was sold in bulk packs as not for LE use. I think you can check with Speer or perhaps even Google for the lot numbers of recalled ammo.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Well, heard back from Speer/ATK and as I said in my original post, the reasons for the Not For LE Duty use is anything from "stains on the bullets or cases" up to "misfires at a rate of 1 in 50,000". It may even be "a complaint that can't be substantiated by QA testing".

    These are not just over runs. They have substantiated problems.

    Like I said, usable yes. Good for practice, yes. Would I bet my life on it in a carry situation? Nope.

    Once again, is betting your life on a 50 cent difference per round worth it? You're the only one that can make that call.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Well, heard back from Speer/ATK and as I said in my original post, the reasons for the Not For LE Duty use is anything from "stains on the bullets or cases" up to "misfires at a rate of 1 in 50,000". It may even be "a complaint that can't be substantiated by QA testing".

    These are not just over runs. They have substantiated problems.

    Like I said, usable yes. Good for practice, yes. Would I bet my life on it in a carry situation? Nope.

    Once again, is betting your life on a 50 cent difference per round worth it? You're the only one that can make that call.
    Stains on a case is bad? I have seen brand new in box rounds at retail that have stains and they're considered fine. That does nothing for performance, stain does not equal corrosion. Misfire at a rate of 1 in 50k... Do you even realize how likely it is that the ammo you buy at the store in retail box has this same possibility? If their QA can't substantiate any further complaint then seriously. Stop grasping at straws. If it was unsafe to use they wouldn't sell it. LEO have a completely different need than civilians, LEO orders are allowed to be ultra picky because of the money involved in such orders. If it completely did not work they would not release it back to retail.

    If you run multiple boxes through and no problems in firing conditions in your gun then I'd say it's good to go.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    Stains on a case is bad? I have seen brand new in box rounds at retail that have stains and they're considered fine. That does nothing for performance, stain does not equal corrosion. Misfire at a rate of 1 in 50k... Do you even realize how likely it is that the ammo you buy at the store in retail box has this same possibility? If their QA can't substantiate any further complaint then seriously. Stop grasping at straws. If it was unsafe to use they wouldn't sell it. LEO have a completely different need than civilians, LEO orders are allowed to be ultra picky because of the money involved in such orders. If it completely did not work they would not release it back to retail.

    If you run multiple boxes through and no problems in firing conditions in your gun then I'd say it's good to go.

    Thanks for playing!

    Didn't mean to confuse you with the facts.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Thanks for playing!

    Didn't mean to confuse you with the facts.


    I'm with cmdrdredd; the only thing of consequence is the failure rate and I'm betting that the actual spec for non-government contracts isn't that much higher, if at all.

    Do YOU know the civilian failure rate? Didn't think so. I don't either and I don't lose any sleep over it.

    And yes it IS my choice.

    BTW - I just emailed Speer and asked the above question.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  11. #25
    Member Array walrusjax's Avatar
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    OK, I just got a response to the e-mail that I sent to Speer. When I e-mailed them, I gave them Lot and Container number, here is the response:

    ------------------------------

    Tom: the product is our seconds selected to be sold for Training, not a duty or carry round. Great practice loads and safe.

    Shoot Straight!

    ------------------------------

    So, I will just go spend the $20 to get a new box for carry. The main reason that I wanted these was to see how they worked in my gun (I was told to put at least 100 rounds through my gun before I used it for carry) and for future practicing. I did shoot 100 rounds yesterday and I had no jams, no problems and I'm as accurate with them as any other round. Now, I still have 150 rounds to shoot from time to time to keep in practice with the round I'm carrying.

    I appreciate everyone's help in answering my question here. I have learned a lot and I think that I'm on the right track.
    I am the Walrus...Goo Goo Goo Joob

    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” –Benjamin Franklin

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