+P vs Standard Pressure

+P vs Standard Pressure

This is a discussion on +P vs Standard Pressure within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I recently switched from carrying a Taurus 709 loaded with 147g SGD's standard pressure. I never considered +P ammo as the gun wasnt rated for ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 39

Thread: +P vs Standard Pressure

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    3,007

    +P vs Standard Pressure

    I recently switched from carrying a Taurus 709 loaded with 147g SGD's standard pressure. I never considered +P ammo as the gun wasnt rated for it. Then I switched to a S&W 908. The 908 is "kind of" rated for +P. S&W says that you can use a "limited amount" of +p ammo but not to use it all the time.

    So thus the question becomes is it worth changing over from standard pressure to +P ammo for defense purposes? I am inclined to stick with standard pressure as I think it would be eaiser to put more rounds on target in less time because of recoil but I don't wan't to rule out +p if it is mpre effective. Since we all know that hanguns aren't the instant death rays portrayed in the movies I want to milk every bit of performance I can out of it.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    riverview, fl
    Posts
    765
    I will not claim to be any sort of expert. Of any type. For much of anything. I will give you my thoughts based solely on my experience, and my research. 'Research' being: reading books on shootings, speaking w/ officers, depts, and soldiers who have shot someone in the course of their duties. (my father was a firearms instructor in this county, and that gave my a lot of access to these guys for q/a).
    In a pistol/revolver round for defense, my criteria are:
    reliability in THAT gun,
    poa/poi,
    fast, ACCURATE follow up shots,
    availability.

    First, reliability. If it dont work, it dont work. It wont matter what sort of organerupting Nitrislipperyvestdefeatingterroristincapacitating hollowpoint it uses, it does me zero good if it wont go bang in that particular gun.
    Second, poa/poi. All of my sd handguns have fixed sights. So, I want my ammo to hit where my sights are telling my that it should hit. At most sd distances, you wont see a huge change in ammo placement, even amongst different bullet weights or stnd, +p, or +p+. But, it is a confidence builder when you find a round that hits 'perfectly' for that gun.
    Next, fast, ACCURATE follow up shots. Its a handgun. In talking w some depts who were forced to shoot an attacker, most relayed that not only did the bg not drop at the first shot, most didnt even register they'd been shot. So, more than one will need to be used. We are all different when it comes to recoil sensitivity. Some can manage it better than others. If you can shoot +p or +p+ ammo out of your selected handgun and can put multiple, very fast shots on target accurately, then do it. If you notice a lag between shots because you are battling the recoil to realign the muzzle to the target, maybe souped up rounds are'nt really helping.
    Finally, availability. Its gonna take some testing to select this perfect ammo we are in search of. Just make sure you can find/purchase enough to satisfactorily test and evaluate it.

    Again, this is my list.
    I hope it helps.

    dan

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    riverview, fl
    Posts
    765
    If you'll indulge me a minute more......
    When evaluating your potential ammo, dont just test it in a ransom rest, or w/ a two hand perfect hold. May not tell you the whole story. test it w a variety of grips. One hand, weak hand only, shooting in low light while utilizing a hand held light. Also, may want to do some low light shooting just to check the muzzle flash of that ammo/gun combo.
    Certain ammo/gun combo's may run fine under ideal circumstances. Your sd shooting may be far from ideal. Make sure that ammo/gun runs as close to 100% under the worst conditions you can introduce into your testing/eval methods as possible.

    dan

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    3,007
    Quote Originally Posted by jdsumner View Post
    If you'll indulge me a minute more......
    When evaluating your potential ammo, dont just test it in a ransom rest, or w/ a two hand perfect hold. May not tell you the whole story. test it w a variety of grips. One hand, weak hand only, shooting in low light while utilizing a hand held light. Also, may want to do some low light shooting just to check the muzzle flash of that ammo/gun combo.
    Certain ammo/gun combo's may run fine under ideal circumstances. Your sd shooting may be far from ideal. Make sure that ammo/gun runs as close to 100% under the worst conditions you can introduce into your testing/eval methods as possible.

    dan
    Good information. I generally take everything you said under consideration when testing SD ammo execept for shooting in less then ideal circumstances. However that makes a lot of sense so I will be adding it to my list of things to test for SD ammo. At this point I think I will be sticking with non +p ammo as I carry a fairly light pistol so any reduction in recoil for follow up shots I think is worth it.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    riverview, fl
    Posts
    765
    Flattered you thought it helpful, Sir.

    dan

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    3,513
    Any firearm that the manufactor stated it was suitable for limited +P useage would cause me to use only standard ammo. I would assume that +P ammo in that firearm created accelerated wear which could result in reliability issues. Reliability ranks high in my concerns. If I wanted more power I would go with a different firearm or caliber.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  7. #7
    Member Array Bart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    480
    If your shooting hollow points, the faster the bullet, the better the chance of expansion and penetration. When shooting my wife's Taurus M 85 .38 spl. snubby, I feel very little difference in recoil between the standard load and the +P.

  8. #8
    Member Array Bart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    480
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevew View Post
    Any firearm that the manufactor stated it was suitable for limited +P useage would cause me to use only standard ammo. I would assume that +P ammo in that firearm created accelerated wear which could result in reliability issues. Reliability ranks high in my concerns. If I wanted more power I would go with a different firearm or caliber.
    My dad carried a Taurus M 85 .38 spl. snubby for backup when he was a LEO over 40 yrs. ago. Standard gun with no +P rating one way or another. He fired +P and carried with +P, never had a problem with the gun. Thousands of rounds & 30 yrs. later it became one of my guns. It was still tight & solid, if it was worn at all there was no evidence. If anyone however has any concern then I suggest practicing with the standard load and carry the +P for more reliable expansion and penetration. The circumstances are much different with auto pistols due to the mechanics of the gun, such as slide, springs, ejectors, etc. For instance, I have an older(1989) SIG 220 .45 cal. that specifically states DO NOT USE +P due to pressure tolerances.

  9. #9
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,919
    Helpful hint.
    If you should decide to shoot it with +P then install a fresh recoil spring before you do.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array digitalexplr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Jefferson City, MO
    Posts
    914
    High velocity (+p) does not necessarily equal greater penetration. Shot placement and penetration are what will put the bad guy down, and it may take several shots regardless of caliber.

    Here's an example: Trooper Mark Hunter Coates, South Carolina Highway Patrol

    Notice that the BG took 5 .357mag rounds to the chest - and lived!

    Carry and shoot what floats your boat. Just know that +p doesn't really add much to the equation, but does lighten your wallet more than standard pressure rounds.
    NRA Life Member

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Arid Zone A
    Posts
    1,563
    I personally prefer standard pressure loads, because I practice with rounds that are as close to what I carry as possible. Since almost no one makes +P practice rounds that match SD rounds (and I'm not handloading +P rounds!), that means I shoot standard loads and focus on accuracy and speed, in that order.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    riverview, fl
    Posts
    765
    Cant fault your logic.

    dan

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,974
    +p is for 1 thing. To get a greater MV Since V is squared in the energy formula In a perfect world it will make a bigger impact then a standard pressure round. Whether or not you carry +p (and I do) is up to you. Keep in mind that in a SD situation you'll always want the best chance of getting out alive. If a +p round gives just a little extra somthin' then that is what I would go for.

    In my carry piece +p rounds don't produce a huge difference in feel, but the chronograph doesn't lie. The +p rounds consistantly fly just over 200fps faster then non +p when compairing 230grain .45
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    riverview, fl
    Posts
    765
    .....and I'll go along w/ that logic, as well, Razor.
    As long as the controlability (sp?) remains intact, and the firearm is rated to take it, I'd say run it.
    It's all about balance.

    dan

    ps, hey Razor, what is the increase for that 230gr round in footpounds for a gain of 200fps? I dont have chart or a good reference right here handy.
    And what is the barrel length?

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    3,513
    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    My dad carried a Taurus M 85 .38 spl. snubby for backup when he was a LEO over 40 yrs. ago. Standard gun with no +P rating one way or another. He fired +P and carried with +P, never had a problem with the gun. Thousands of rounds & 30 yrs. later it became one of my guns. It was still tight & solid, if it was worn at all there was no evidence. If anyone however has any concern then I suggest practicing with the standard load and carry the +P for more reliable expansion and penetration. The circumstances are much different with auto pistols due to the mechanics of the gun, such as slide, springs, ejectors, etc. For instance, I have an older(1989) SIG 220 .45 cal. that specifically states DO NOT USE +P due to pressure tolerances.
    40 Years ago there was not +P designation. The firearms industry adopted the +P headstamp in 1974. High pressure 38 spl ammo however has been around since the 1930's. It was for use in heavy frame revolvers.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Anybody Happy With Plain Old 38 Special Standard Pressure?
    By mojust in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: July 19th, 2008, 06:36 PM
  2. *test* Fiocchi .45acp 230gr Standard Pressure
    By Joshua M. Smith in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: June 9th, 2008, 05:12 AM
  3. Who's Happy With Standard Pressure 45 ACP?
    By mojust in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: March 20th, 2008, 03:19 AM
  4. Rem 115gr Standard Pressure Water + Denim test
    By Joshua M. Smith in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: August 11th, 2007, 08:45 AM
  5. Good Price? Rem 115gr HP Standard Pressure
    By Joshua M. Smith in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: August 4th, 2007, 07:53 PM

Search tags for this page

p ammo vs regular

,

p ammo vs standard

,
p ammo vs standard pressure
,
p vs regular
,

p vs regular ammo

,

p vs standard

,
p vs standard ammo
,

p vs standard pressure

,
regular ammo vs p
,
regular vs p ammo
,

standard pressure vs p

,
standard vs p
Click on a term to search for related topics.