Problem with lead bullets in my pistol

Problem with lead bullets in my pistol

This is a discussion on Problem with lead bullets in my pistol within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I would like some help deciphering this situation that happened tonight. Loading Once-fired 45ACP brass with 4.0gr Titegroup, with a lead 200 grain semi-wadcutter. OAL ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array mprasek's Avatar
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    Problem with lead bullets in my pistol

    I would like some help deciphering this situation that happened tonight.

    Loading Once-fired 45ACP brass with 4.0gr Titegroup, with a lead 200 grain semi-wadcutter. OAL 1.225

    Chronograph from my autoloader (Tanfoglio Witness) gave 450 fps instead of the expected 800 fps.

    230 grain hardball used to check chrono out of same gun gave 924 fps (intentionally hot load).

    Next lead bullet gave 454 fps.

    Same lead bullet and load out of a Glock 45 gave 824fps.

    Gun has about 800 rounds through it. All jacketed bullets give good performance.

    Any ideas?


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    Perhaps a goof on the powder in that batch? unintentional light load?
    I don't load my own(yet), so I'm just shooting in the dark. (pardon the pun)

    I'd suggest double checking your recipe and loading a new batch. Maybe a diff powder will work.

    It's late, and I'm bored. Please don't beat up the noob for giving an experienced hand loader suggestions.
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  3. #3
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    Array msgt/ret's Avatar
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    Winchester’s website shows a minimum load of 4.8gr for 812fps max load is 5.4gr for 957fps using Titegroup.

    Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    The Hornady manual starts out with 4.5g of titegroup at 800fps with a 200g lead bullet using Win primers. How long is your barrel? Horady used a 5 inch barrel.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  5. #5
    Member Array mprasek's Avatar
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    Maybe I need to clarify....

    I actually don't have a problem with the powder/primer/bullet combination. This is a light load that I am putting together... The load is 4.4 Titegroup, Winchester primer, and swaged lead 200 grain Semi-wadcutter with single lube groove, OAL 1.220, with taper crimp.

    I rechecked my powder drop, disassembled one of the cartridges from the 10 round assembly run, and found the proper specs.

    I really don't have a problem with the load, as it gave me over 800fps from the Glock.

    My real problem is that MY pistol will give only 450fps with this load, even though the 230gr FMJ I shot between tries with the lead bullets gave me 924fps.

    My barrel length is 3.6" and I expect 30-40fps lower than the 5" barrel in most cases (this has been fairly consistent through testing a bunch of loads).

    (Sorry about any confusion, the load is 4.4 Titegroup... I wrote the original post at 2am and didn't have my notes handy)

    Thanks,
    Mike

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    I would expect more than 450 fps. Maybe closer 700fps to 750fps. Maybe you are having a problem with muzzle blast with your chronograph. I have had some weird things happen with sub-sonic loads. I have some 38 spl loads right now that should clocking about 800 fps chronographing at 1450. Had to play around with the distance for muzzle to chronograph.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  7. #7
    Member Array mprasek's Avatar
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    I don't suspect muzzle blast or other chrono funnies because...

    1. It was consistent for the lead bullets. All were in the same fps range
    2. Chrono reading from the FMJ is right where it chronoed before
    3. First screen is 10 feet from muzzle
    4. One of the lead wadcutters BOUNCED OFF of the plywood without being deformed. Except for the rifling marks, you couldn't tell it from a new bullet!

    Thanks for the ideas, it is helping narrow it down.
    M

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Check the diameter of the bullets. Undersize bullets will allow gas to escape around them, decreasing velocity.

    Too light a crimp can also result in low pressure / low velocity.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    I have no idea then. You could slug your barrel and make sure you have a good barrel bullet match. I would be concerned about a barrel obstruction occurring if you are bouncing off plywood.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    Check the diameter of the lead bullets compared to the FMJ bullets and then measure the bore on both pistols. I believe the above numbers will answer your question. Also do you know what hardness the lead bullets are?

    NCH
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  11. #11
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    You aint supposed to shoot lead bullets out of a stock Glock.

  12. #12
    Member Array mprasek's Avatar
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    The next step is to slug the barrel. Already have that set up.

    NCHornet -
    The FMJ was .451, the lead was .452, and the bore at the muzzle was around .450 (I didn't mic it, someone else did, so I don't remember the number, but was it was determined to be compatible). The bullets are by Houston Bullet Co, and had no markings other than the caliber and weight on the box, so I have no idea the hardness.

    My new theory is that the chamber end of the bore is not as tight as the muzzle end allowing initial blow by. The slugging should tell me the story.

    A friend was wondering if it was possible that the 3.6" barrel in the compact was optimized for jacketed bullets and did not handle lead by design. Does any manufacturer do this?

    RamRod-
    I understand that. The owner of the Glock was informed of this and we only fired one. Just to verify the chrono setup wasn't wrong on lead bullets. I thank you for your concern.

    Thanks for the dialog, it helps keep me sane in the lack of evidence....

    M

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    I would probably load up five rounds with a different powder just to see.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  14. #14
    Member Array SteveinNEPA's Avatar
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    Im with ramrod, NO LEAD OUT OF A STOCK GLOCK ONLY JACKETED...
    ~Steve
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  15. #15
    Member Array Sgt Z Squad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveinNEPA View Post
    Im with ramrod, NO LEAD OUT OF A STOCK GLOCK ONLY JACKETED...
    ~Steve
    I ditto this, Glock says that is a no-no.
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