Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue

This is a discussion on Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 10thmtn Did you shoot into the exact same area of the home? Weird stuff can happen. All I know is that 60 ...

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Thread: Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Did you shoot into the exact same area of the home?

    Weird stuff can happen. All I know is that 60 gr at 1250 fps (buckshot pellet) has less momentum than 115 gr at roughly the same velocity (9mm).

    Of course, it's possible that some pellets "cleared the way" for other pellets, leading to greater penetration overall. Like I said, weird stuff can happen.

    The testing done at "boxotruth" contradicts what you saw - so, you must clearly be delusional...
    test is for yourself. The 9mm didn't even penetrate the exterior of the second building. This was done in multiple parts of each building. The shotgun went through every single time and then some. I was clearly shocked and I will try to post some pictures of the bathtub for you guys. By the way, I am an technical person by trade and make my living with numbers and math. I don't post this lightly, if I can change anyones mind about using 00 buck shot inside a multi-family home then I have done my job.

    I have a very young child and this scared the crap out of me when I saw the results. I have tested 9mm a few times in a real world environment, but the 12ga changed me. Just for anyone who thinks " I would not shoot in that direction", just keep in mind that bullets do weird things.
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  3. #62
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    This thread is rife with psuedo science, "my momma said so", and "I know a guy who said he heard from someone who knew" logic. Enough said.

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    Question What about frangible projectiles like MagSafe rounds?

    Has anyone seen the real-world results of any of the frangible rounds in 40 or 45 cal like MagSafe or RCBD... there are a few different brands out there. RCBD is designed to be super HV in 40 S&W and 45ACP. These are supposed to be designed to dump all their kinetic energy into the target but with very low penetration of targets like drywall. Anyone able to relate results of these?

    My 870 marine magnum was moidified for combat by Hans Vang and would indeed be the best close range protection weapon around...

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    I load with Federal FliteControl 00 buck,The last three rounds are Federal HydraShok Slugs and in the carrier are Federal Trueball slugs if I want to reach out and touch someone out to 50 yards. Inside my home the longest shot is less than 20 yards at that range the spread is about six inches so well within COM. Granted I live on twenty acres far away from neighbors and the kids are all grown and gone. When I did live in the city with kids we had a code for them to hit the ground we practiced it. Just like we did fire drills since they were five. I don't practice, train or load to miss. I practice and load with the intent of doing maximum damage to anyone coming to do us harm as quickly as possible. My thoughts always have been that if you are planning on missing maybe you should reconsider having a gun or shooting at all. Know what your backstop is you are responsible for every round that leaves your gun
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    Dekalb PD

    Pray tell, why does the Dekalb PD carry the Beretta 92 in 9mm?

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    Wink Contrary thoughts and opinions here...

    Quote Originally Posted by hassiman View Post
    Has anyone seen the real-world results of any of the frangible rounds in 40 or 45 cal like MagSafe or RCBD... there are a few different brands out there. RCBD is designed to be super HV in 40 S&W and 45ACP. These are supposed to be designed to dump all their kinetic energy into the target but with very low penetration of targets like drywall. Anyone able to relate results of these?

    My 870 marine magnum was moidified for combat by Hans Vang and would indeed be the best close range protection weapon around...
    I have loaded MagSafe, Glaser (Silver) and even RBCD. Lots of folks around here are disdainful of all three and cite all sorts of evidence.

    I like MagSafe for the lack of total penetration (the fabled Thru and Thru gunshot wound or T-N-T) and lack of a ricochet threat.

    I also don't worry about the round breaking up before it gets to where it needs to be, even in cold weather, at least not here. Here in Miami, FL even really cold nights don't bring a lot of really heavy coats on the locals and the snowbirds (folks from the north) don't wear them. You'll find them at the beach in 40 degree weather. If I lived further north like the Carolinas, I'd probably be loading 45 DPX all the time.



    The bottom line as it has always been is going to be shot placement. If my initial shot has no effect, I'm going to segue to the cranial vault immediately. If I had MagSafe loaded and could see my attacker had a huge excess of body fat (300 pounds+) I might go for the head shot immediately since I might be worried about not penetrating far enough to really strike the vitals but that might also be true of DPX for that matter.

    I'll bet that Vang 870 is some hot shottie! I personally would never own a pump gun for self defense. I'd be too worried about short stroking the pump under that kind of pressure and causing a double feed jam which would probably prove fatal ... to me. I'll stick with my pro-ported Benelli.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugergirl View Post
    A good read and one I've read before.
    For me three things are the most important:
    Shot Placement
    Shot Placement
    and
    Shot placement
    2 to the chest and 1 in the head, and that still leaves me with a couple more.
    ^^^^^^^^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^
    YEP
    YEP
    YEP
    YEP

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    WAIT! Not MY experience, the experiences of the original poster who works in a morgue! I used to work in a hospital morgue when I was 19 as part of the hospital security team when I was home from college for the summer. Part of my job was to put away the stiffs, er I mean the remains of the deceased when they expired after hours and record the toe tag info for the morning shift. I also supervised the weekly pickups of remains by the various funeral homes. That job was the first time I not only realized that the dead bodies continue to MOVE after death but I actually saw them and experienced some pretty dramatic stuff first hand. Had a dead body get a muscle contraction and sit up on a gurney. His back was like a US Marine at attention, but his head dangled forward. He had air trapped in his diaphram (spelling?) and it all rushed out causing him to loudly moan. I nearly fainted. Had I been armed on that job, I might have shot him.

    Biker RN have you ever seen that kind of thing? Or any of the medical personnel around here?

    But that brief job experience in no way pertains to THIS thread!!!!
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    Wink Well, there could be LOTS of reasons...

    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose39 View Post
    Pray tell, why does the Dekalb PD carry the Beretta 92 in 9mm?
    WELCOME TO THE FORUM! As for the Beretta M92....

    Well, it's a great gun for one reason. Heck I own one! Butter smooth action and that cutout slide pretty much guarantees a jam free shooting session. At least from the most common types of failures to feed or extract.

    They might have gotten a great price from another contract overrun maybe for the military. They might have used RICO money to buy them new on their own contract. It's not the gun being debated here it's the ammo and mostly ammo that is FMJ as the military is mandated to use by the Hague Accords on the laws of Land Warfare.

    Modern defensive ammo has made such advances that there is not that much difference between the major calibers in performance as long as the shot is reasonably placed. Lots of times the ammo COST is a huge consideration. In my view, that's one of the major counts going against the 40 S&W -- the so called "Shorty Forty."
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoprilshoot View Post
    hee,hee,

    i love the internut.


    on one forum you got a guy that is working in the morgue and says .45 is ta' best, on another forum, another guy works in the morgue and 9 is fine'.



    hhmmm!
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  12. #71
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    fantastic post i'm sorry it took me three months to find; this is why i believe this is the best forum on the internet.
    I wonder what a 10mm would do?
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    I know that when I move and shoot, and even worse, move and shoot things that are moving, I suck.
    I carry 9mm because it has the best compromise of "shootability" and "carryability" for me. I now (almost always) carry a Glock, because I can shoot it faster and more accurately (love that reset) with a decent round capacity in the gun than anything else. I have equalled my performance with a full size 1911, and even better a CZ 97, but I'm not toting either of those around, so 9 it is.
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    Just Wondering

    Given that the sternum and ribs provide some armoring, especially in frontal COM shots, has any organization performed ballistics testing involving expansion and penetration in gelatin behind a bone-like substance covered by the usual denim layers? I suppose that it has been done, but I've never come across openly available results. I suppose that shooting through glass could come close, but I don't recall seeing denim involved.

    I've read a lot of anecdotal reports, such as the one that lead off this thread, but not controlled testing.

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    Lazarus Long! Welcome to the forum. I have read all of your notebooks and many stories!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  16. #75
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    Enjoyable read, long, but enjoyable.
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    "For me, it is far better to grasp the universe as it is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." Carl Sagan - The Demon-Haunted World

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