Handgun stopping power - Page 2

Handgun stopping power

This is a discussion on Handgun stopping power within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok info, but (yet again) incorrect use of the term "center mass" (or, even more correctly, center of mass). Center of mass does NOT automatically ...

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Thread: Handgun stopping power

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array OPFOR's Avatar
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    Dec 2006
    Ok info, but (yet again) incorrect use of the term "center mass" (or, even more correctly, center of mass). Center of mass does NOT automatically mean the torso - it only means the torso if you have the whole body to shoot at. It means, rather, exactly what it says - the center of the mass of the target presented to you. If all you have is an upper arm to shoot at, the center of mass will be somewhere in the neighborhood of the middle of the bicep, and so on for any target as it's presented.

    Someone with the authors credentials should know this (and, if he does, should be more precise with his terminology).
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  2. #17
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Dec 2004
    Coral Gables, FL

    Lightbulb Suppressive Fire?

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisianaMan View Post
    Obviously police stats are what interest the FBI most, and it may well be that similarly reliable stats just don't exist on civilian HD/SD shooting.

    But with that being allowed for, how many of the 80% misses are shots not necessarily intended to hit the target, but to suppress it? And how many are at distances well beyond the typical civilian HD/SD distance? And how many are because the overall environment is a blazing gun battle, unlike most (I think) civilian shooting situations? Or because the cop has to run down the block or up the stairwell after a BG?

    Obviously, misses occur because of stress, low viz, poor aim, etc., but those aren't the only reason. And if the average shots per SD situation are 3.2 (or something like that--which I often see bandied about), that would allow only about 0.6 hits per engagement :-)

    I'm not AT ALL dismissing the significance of these studies for LEOs, and we all can learn lessons from them. I do believe, however, that 80% miss stats make SD/HD folks feel insecure with any amount of ammo they may be carrying. As a civilian who lives a non-controversial lifestyle, I feel well-equipped with a loaded revolver & additional speedloader when out & about. At home, I add a shotgun + more revolvers to the mix. As a soldier for 24 yrs, I did NOT want to swap my auto for a revolver :-) Nor would I these days as a LEO. But it seems like modern-day HD/SD situations still bear more resemblance to the classical HD/SD situation than modern-day "police combat" bears to traditional police work. In the former, armed resistance with a revolver was probably enough in most cases, and I think it would be today, too. In the latter, no. . .police have to expect pitched battles.

    BTW, the avatar is me shooting a Thompson M1A1--maybe it makes me seem hypocritical !! :-)
    Naaaah NOT hypocritical, LUCKY.

    But I would submit that there is ONLY one place for "suppressive fire" and that is on a real battlefield. The "pitched battles" LEOs are apt to encounter can utilize suppressive fire but it should only be attempted by SWAT in extremely narrow applications IMHO.

    I'm pretty certain there are stats kept on civilian shootings because a few years ago I read that the initial hit rate for civilians is like ELEVEN times greater than for LEOs. It's possible that those stats are part of a different study. Maybe one of the stopping power studies like those undertaken by Fackler or Marshall.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 28 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; NRA Patron Life; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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