Handgun stopping power

Handgun stopping power

This is a discussion on Handgun stopping power within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is from Frank Borelli's NEW AMERICAN TRUTH e-letter. The "voice/author" is Tom Perroni and I think he's an instructor at Blackwater aka the Knights ...

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Thread: Handgun stopping power

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Exclamation Handgun stopping power

    This is from Frank Borelli's NEW AMERICAN TRUTH e-letter. The "voice/author" is Tom Perroni and I think he's an instructor at Blackwater aka the Knights who say XE!

    When it comes to Handgun Stopping Power I have always taught my students that a Handgun is tool; a tool to fight your way back to the shotgun or long-gun you should have had if you knew you were going to be in a fight. The FBI has put together an article about Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness that is the basis for the vast majority of this article.

    First let’s take a look at some statistics. The FBI, in the Uniform Crime Report (UCR), tells us that most shootings – about 80% – occur in low or reduced light. Most shootings involving police officers and civilian concealed carry permit holders happen at a distance of less than ten feet with average distance at three feet. In most police shooting the average number of rounds fired is ten. Keep in mind that most police agencies have a magazine capacity of 15 rounds. Of those ten rounds only two hit the subject that means an 80% miss rate. It is fair to say that most gun fights last about 10-15 seconds. And I would say as a general rule we know that action beats reaction.

    When I teach on the subject of stopping power I teach about the “Anatomical Theory of Stopping Power” The theory that states there are only two places on the human body that you can shoot a subject and get immediate incapacitation:

    1. The cranio-ocular cavity (about the size of a business card). This is the area on the head between the eyebrow line and the mustache line (Right between the eyes).

    2. The Cervical Spine. From the base of the brain to the top of the collar bone (In the area of the Throat.)

    Both of the above mentioned areas, when hit with a bullet, will shut down the central nervous system, thus incapacitating your attacker. There are also schools that teach the Pelvic Girdle shot. I am not a big proponent of this. When teaching I often ask my students “How many of you have seen a chicken get its head cut off?” “What happens once this happens?” The answer I most often get is it runs around for several minutes. My response is if a 10lb chicken can run around for several minutes without its head, what do you think a 200lb man bent on bringing the fight to you will be able to do with a small hole or two? (Adrenalin is a powerful drug) I often get asked, “Well, what if I shoot him directly in the heart?” The answer is: It will take about 15 seconds to bleed out. How much damage can the attacker inflict in that time?

    This may often happen because most police academies and shooting schools teach to shoot to center mass (It’s a larger target area to place shots). When the day comes and you are in a gunfight and place your shots center mass and the attacker does not go down then panic can set in and the good guy keeps shooting center mass. More hits mean more blood loss, but it’s still a time consuming and time dependent process.

    As a corollary tactical principle, no law enforcement officer should ever plan to meet an expected attack armed only with a handgun. Physiologically, no caliber of bullet is certain to incapacitate any individual unless the brain is hit. Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed “shock” of bullet impact is a fable and “knock down” power is a myth.

    With the exceptions of hits to the brain or upper spinal cord, the concept of reliable and reproducible immediate incapacitation of the human target by gunshot wounds to the torso is a myth. (27) The human target is a complex and durable one. A wide variety of psychological, physical, and physiological factors exist, all of them pertinent to the probability of incapacitation. However, except for the location of the wound and the amount of tissue destroyed, none of the factors are within the control of the law enforcement officer.

    Physiologically, a determined adversary can be stopped reliably and immediately only by a shot that disrupts the brain or upper spinal cord. Failing a hit to the central nervous system, massive bleeding from holes in the heart or major blood vessels of the torso causing circulatory collapse is the only other way to force incapacitation upon an adversary, and this takes time. For example, there is sufficient oxygen within the brain to support frill, voluntary action for 10-15 seconds after the heart has been destroyed. (28)

    In fact, physiological factors may actually play a relatively minor role in achieving rapid incapacitation. Barring central nervous system hits, there is no physiological reason for an individual to be incapacitated by even a fatal wound, until blood loss is sufficient to drop blood pressure and/or the brain is deprived of oxygen. The effects of pain, which could contribute greatly to incapacitation, are commonly delayed in the aftermath of serious injury such as a gunshot wound.

    The body engages survival patterns, the well known “fight or flight” syndrome. Pain is irrelevant to survival and is commonly suppressed until some time later. In order to be a factor, pain must first be perceived, and second must cause an emotional response. In many individuals, pain is ignored even when perceived, or the response is anger and increased resistance, not surrender.

    Psychological factors are probably the most important relative to achieving rapid incapacitation from a gunshot wound to the torso. Awareness of the injury (often delayed by the suppression of pain); fear of injury, death, blood, or pain; intimidation by the weapon or the act of being shot; preconceived notions of what people do when they are shot; or the simple desire to quit can all lead to rapid incapacitation even from minor wounds. However, psychological factors are also the primary cause of incapacitation failures.

    The individual may be unaware of the wound and thus has no stimuli to force a reaction. Strong will, survival instinct, or sheer emotion such as rage or hate can keep a grievously injured individual fighting, as is common on the battlefield and in the street. The effects of chemicals can be powerful stimuli preventing incapacitation. Adrenaline alone can be sufficient to keep a mortally wounded adversary functioning. Stimulants, anesthetics, pain killers, or tranquilizers can all prevent incapacitation by suppressing pain, awareness of the injury, or eliminating any concerns over the injury. Drugs such as cocaine, PCP, and heroin are disassociating in nature. One of their effects is that the individual “exists” outside of his body. He sees and experiences what happens to his body, but as an outside observer who can be unaffected by it yet continue to use the body as a tool for fighting or resisting.

    When discussing Handgun caliber with my father, a Marine combat veteran and former police officer, he said this “A hit with a .25 caliber beats a miss with a .45 caliber every day of the week.” I often wondered why my father carried a .25 caliber semi auto for a Back Up Gun (BUG). His explanation was so simple it made perfect sense… at least to me. “If I am in a fight for my gun with a Bad Guy at this point by the way I am in a fight for my life – and for what ever reason I can’t use my primary handgun i.e.; out of ammunition, malfunction, or I am laying on top of it for weapons retention in a fight, I can pull that .25 caliber out of my pocket or vest carrier. And when I point it at the eye socket, nostril, opening of the ear canal, open mouth and pull the trigger the bullet will go in and not come out. End of fight.

    So when we are in a gunfight it is not the size of the handgun or the size of the bullet. “It is knowing where to place hits that will stop the threat.”

    And when I asked about why a 9mm he said it’s all about magazine capacity. A Glock 17 9mm can hold 20 rounds – 19 in the magazine (with a +2 floor plate) and one in the pipe. We all know the average number of rounds fired in a gunfight is 10 and that Law Enforcement has an 80% MISS rate meaning 2 in 10rounds hit the subject so, as my dad put it, I just doubled my odds in a gunfight if I can shoot to stop the threat at the Head & Spine. 20 rounds = 4 hits instead of 2.

    However let’s not forget in order to prevail in a real world “Gun Fight” we need:
    1. Combat Mindset
    2. Tactics (use of cover & concealment & handgun presentation & Reloading)
    3. Training ( Combat Marksmanship & Learn to Shoot, Move & Communicate)

    “In a real world environment or at QCB distances of 3 feet or contact distance”

    27 Wound Ballistic Workshop: “9mm vs. .45 Auto”, FBI Academy, Quantico, VA,
    September 1987. Conclusion of the Workshop.

    28 Wound Ballistic Workshop: “9mm vs. .45 Auto”, FBI Academy, Quantico, VA,
    September 1987. Conclusion of the Workshop.

    The information for this article came from: Special Agent UREY W. PATRICK
    Firearms Training UMT FBI ACADEMY QUANTICO, Virginia July 14, 1989

    Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness
    Thomas A. Perroni Sr. & Frank Borelli also contributed to this article.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.


  2. #2
    Member Array Tros's Avatar
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    I always find it scary to think so many bullets miss the intended target at such close distances...
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    cj
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    Most interesting parts to me:

    "It is fair to say that most gun fights last about 10-15 seconds."

    "“Well, what if I shoot him directly in the heart?” The answer is: It will take about 15 seconds to bleed out."

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    ntg
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    Hope that I NEVER have to be in one. It reaffirms my "why a 9mm".

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    Everyone who carries should practice up close and personal shooting.

    Try El Presidenty(sp?) drill at 3 feet and feel the back blast from the target on your face.

    Learn speed and point shooting along with well aimed shoots at different ranges.

    IMO YMMV
    Last edited by searcher 45; January 12th, 2010 at 07:28 PM.
    NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by searcher 45 View Post
    Everyone who carries should practice up close and personal shooting.
    Some guys laugh at me because I practice "draw and shoot" at 10 to 12 feet.

    I laugh while they stand there and very carefully aim at their target 30-50 feet away.

    I find it a very good article.
    "Don't be afraid to see what you see.
    -Ronald Reagan-

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    Good post, thanks Ex!

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    This article does not reaffirm anything for me. There are two major issues that I have with this article and I was curious if anyone else picked up on the last issue in which was quite comical.

    1. I don't deny the stats about the 80% miss percentage, but from my own personal experience I would not rate myself or the average practicing shooter at the same skill level as a typical officer. I know quite a few officers and most don't practice nearly enough if hardly at all. I don't mean to offend any officers by any means as I am sure there are some who practice a lot, but most of the ones I know have CHS (Can' Hit Shat) syndrome. If you had to bet the house, are you going to take the guy who practices maybe once or twice a year to qualify, or the guys who hits the range once a week?

    2. The part about the .25 was quite comical because if we use the same data from this article with regards to shot placement and miss percentage. Would you want to carry a .25?
    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

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    Interesting data and info. While I don't agree about carrying the "extra" .25, the shot placement and how long the target can react is a value to know.

    So much for bleeding hearts saying, "why did the cop have to shoot him 10 times?"
    Answer: the perp was still moving, slashing, firing, etc.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Great Information! The 2 out of 10 shots hit their target puts the odds in bad favor for the GG....
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18CFw0lnD8

    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

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    Good info.

    The tactical relevance is this - at very close range (contact to a few yards) practice the zipper drill - fire shots up the centerline as you bring your gun up toward the target. This maximizes the chance of hitting the spine.

    At greater distance, use the Mozambique drill - 2 to the high chest, followed by 1 or 2 to the face. The second chest shot should be a "tie knot shot" - targeting the base of the neck, seeking to hit the spine.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    C Hawk - I think what the author was refering to with the use of his backup in .25 ACP was that at that point it was going to be a ground fight type scenario where it will be contact shots made - and he believes that .25 ACP is sufficient for that.

    I carry a .357 Magnum in a hammerless snubby for that same reason - I dont trust a semi auto to fire or cycle properly if I am engaged in a grappling match with some guy trying to kill me - I figure the extra bang, flash and shock of the .357 from that short barreled gun will be a great help - and I know I will get at least 5 shots off even if I have to shove the barrel deep into my assailants side, stomach, or eye socket and it wont go out of battery.

    I do know that our local PD has a much higher hit percentage in gunfights since 1975... 80 percent hit ratio. They do have a very robust training and qualification cycle though. So training would seem to have a positive effect on that particular aspect.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

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    My father-in-law, a retired NYC Court Officer posted in Brooklyn Criminal Court always says "Take 5 and dive".

    I believe that validates Gary's statement.

    Bruce
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    Samuel Colt did"

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    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    All in all an excellent article.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

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    Obviously police stats are what interest the FBI most, and it may well be that similarly reliable stats just don't exist on civilian HD/SD shooting.

    But with that being allowed for, how many of the 80% misses are shots not necessarily intended to hit the target, but to suppress it? And how many are at distances well beyond the typical civilian HD/SD distance? And how many are because the overall environment is a blazing gun battle, unlike most (I think) civilian shooting situations? Or because the cop has to run down the block or up the stairwell after a BG?

    Obviously, misses occur because of stress, low viz, poor aim, etc., but those aren't the only reason. And if the average shots per SD situation are 3.2 (or something like that--which I often see bandied about), that would allow only about 0.6 hits per engagement :-)

    I'm not AT ALL dismissing the significance of these studies for LEOs, and we all can learn lessons from them. I do believe, however, that 80% miss stats make SD/HD folks feel insecure with any amount of ammo they may be carrying. As a civilian who lives a non-controversial lifestyle, I feel well-equipped with a loaded revolver & additional speedloader when out & about. At home, I add a shotgun + more revolvers to the mix. As a soldier for 24 yrs, I did NOT want to swap my auto for a revolver :-) Nor would I these days as a LEO. But it seems like modern-day HD/SD situations still bear more resemblance to the classical HD/SD situation than modern-day "police combat" bears to traditional police work. In the former, armed resistance with a revolver was probably enough in most cases, and I think it would be today, too. In the latter, no. . .police have to expect pitched battles.

    BTW, the avatar is me shooting a Thompson M1A1--maybe it makes me seem hypocritical !! :-)
    Last edited by LouisianaMan; January 17th, 2010 at 06:19 PM. Reason: Thompson P.S.

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