Buffalo Bore +P .380 not for me

This is a discussion on Buffalo Bore +P .380 not for me within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have been very impressed with some of the BB numbers out of the .380. I decided to give it a try out of my ...

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Thread: Buffalo Bore +P .380 not for me

  1. #1
    Member Array Boykinhntr's Avatar
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    Buffalo Bore +P .380 not for me

    I have been very impressed with some of the BB numbers out of the .380. I decided to give it a try out of my Taurus TCP. I called Taurus and got a run around type of answer on whether the gun was built to handle these loads. I understand why they couldnt give me straight answer bc technically there isn't a +P .380.

    Anyway, after shooting 20 rounds of 90gr JHP I am NOT going to use this any longer. I do not think it is a good idea to shoot these high pressure loads in many of the small .380s such as the TCP, LCP, P3at etc...

    The rounds fed flawlessly and were very accurate. I think these are actually really good rounds as far as performance. BUT they produce a significant amount of snap. It was much harder to stay on target because of the snappy recoil. I am much more accurate on multiple rounds with standard defense rounds. Pair that with the abuse of the excess pressure and I quickly decided they are not for me.

    I just bought some Gold Dots and will be looking forward to trying them.

    Thoughts?

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  3. #2
    Member Array LouisianaMan's Avatar
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    .45LC, too

    Your impression with their .380 mirrors mine with their 260g JHP in 45LC. Fired in my Marlin 1894 Cowboy carbine, it felt like a .45-70 wth no recoil pad. No way I was going to shoot these in my Vaquero. The gun could probably handle it, but I didn't want to hold the thing.

    I don't doubt that BB is high-quality ammo. Nonetheless, if anyone could afford to shoot it regularly, I think we'd be seeing serious reports of frame stretching in revolvers & analogous difficulties in autos. The pressure may be OK due to propellant advances, but the recoil will batter a gun just like it does the shooter.

    Some say I've been wrong before, so maybe I'm wrong again this time.

  4. #3
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    Buffalo Bore

    I sure would recommend it for carry in pistols like the Walther PPK/S & the Mustang though.


    380 Auto +P Ammo - 90 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point (1200fps M.E. 288 ft. lbs. - 20 Round Box

    The 380 auto inhabits a valuable and useful place in our society, mostly because of the easily concealable, tiny pistols chambered for it. HOWEVER, because of the very limited size of the cartridge, it is plagued with limited power and therefore most of the existing ammo in 380 auto suffers from not being reliable as a man-stopper. We've studied and played with nearly all of the existing available 380 ammo and find it wanting as a reliable means of self defense, especially against a large, insane, drugged up/pain free, determined attacker.

    Here's the problem. The current 380 auto frangible ammo delivers a large amount of surface trauma, but lacks serious penetration. For example, if you shot me or another sane man in the face with modern frangible 380 ammo, it would blow off a big portion of my cheek and send a few teeth down my throat, I would undoubtedly fall to the ground in shock and pain, but I would be very much alive and functional if I could get past the shock and pain as that frangible bullet would have stopped some where inside my face, never making it to my brain. However, if you shot a drugged up maniac in the face with that same frangible 380 ammo and blew half his cheek off, he would keep right on coming because he is insane and is not thinking like you or I. Plus, he is likely pain free and fear free and wont know that half his cheek is missing and if he did know, he would not care. So whatever 380 ammo you shoot him in the face with, had better go through his face and blow his brain stem out the back of his head, because only a CNS (central nervous system) hit with a 380 is going to stop him. Likewise, a torso hit to the sternum needs to penetrate deep enough to blow all the way through his spine in order to shut him down spontaneously. If you fail to shut him down instantly, you and your loved ones are going to have to find a way to survive while you wait for him to bleed out and pass out. The best chance of survival for you and your family is to shut down the attacker instantly. So, we've designed a few 380 auto +P loads to keep you and your loved ones alive under the worst of scenarios.

    This 380 Auto+P ammo will better all American made 380 Auto ammo by 150 fps to 200 fps in all bullet weights we make. This is a serious improvement in this typically anemic cartridge. This 380 auto+P ammo is more powerful than the typical 38SPL ammo made by most American ammo makers and you'll get 7 shots of it in a small/flat/light weight 380 versus 5 shots out of a bulkier 38 SPL J frame revolver. Additionally, with the 380 you'll get much faster reloads and the little magazines are flatter than a speed-loader used for a J frame.

    1. Item 27A/20 is a 100gr. HARD cast bullet with a flat nose. It is traveling over 1,150 fps out of my 3.75 inch BDA (Browning Double Action). We've used a flash suppressed powder for all three of our 380 auto loads so that you wont be blinded by your own gunfire if you have to shoot in the dark and since around 95% of all civilian shootings in America occur in low light, the chances that your own gunfire will blind you while you are trying to save your life, are good - we've eliminated this variable by using flash suppressed powder. We've also chosen a flat nosed solid bullet. The flat on the nose ensures that the bullet will cut/smash its way through flesh and bone and do much more destruction than typical round nose FMJ bullets. Round nosed bullets tend to slip and slide through matter, doing little damage as opposed to a flat nosed bullet. The flat nose not only wounds much more than a round nosed bullet, but it actually keeps the penetration straight and thus deeper. Notice the below velocities recorded from my personal 380 auto pistols. These are real world guns and thus the speeds are realistic and not exaggerated speeds produced from laboratory test barrels. What you see with Buffalo Bore Ammo, is truly what you get in the "real world", where it matters. You can expect 20+ inches of straight-line penetration in flesh and bone with this load. If you are worried about over penetration with this load, DON'T! You chose to carry a tiny under-powered 380 auto pistol and the trade-off is that you are now going to have to stay alive with that pistol and over penetration will be the least of your worries if you end up needing this gun to save yourself or your family.

    1. BDA-3.75 inch barrel--- 1160 fps
    2. Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel-----1149 fps
    3. Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel---1072 fps
    4. Keltec---1061 fps

    2. Item 27B/20 is the very same load as 27A above, but it uses a 95 gr. FMJ-FN (Full metal jacket-flat nose) bullet. We designed it for folks who simply don't like hard cast bullets. Although it is 5 grains lighter, it is moving a tad bit slower than the 100gr. hard cast bullet. This is because the hard cast bullet produces less friction in the barrel than a jacketed bullet and therefore produces less pressure, so we can run it a little faster even though it is heavier. Some pistols may not give good accuracy with the cast bullet, and some folks don't like cast bullets, so we made the same load with a jacketed bullet for those folks. This FMJ-FN load is designed to do the very same thing as the hard cast load above. Check out my "real world" velocities from my "real world" pistols below. You can expect nearly 20 inches of straight-line penetration in human flesh and bone with this load.

    1. BDA-3.75 inch barrel----1145 fps
    2. Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel----1120 fps
    3. Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel----1042 fps
    4. Keltec - 2.75 inch barrel----1019 fps

    3. Item 27C/20 is a 90gr. Jacketed Hollow Point bullet and is the only hollow nosed expanding bullet we trust to expand reliably, yet penetrate deep enough to be lethal on a drugged up, pain free attacker. It is traveling over 1,200 fps out of my BDA (Browning Double Action) with its 3.75 inch barrel. This bullet is truly bonded and will mushroom to about .55 caliber and not lose any weight, thus penetrating quite deeply in human matter. You should expect about 10+ inches of penetration in flesh and bone. We've utilized the very same flash suppressed powders that we've used in our two other 380 auto +P loads. If you like the idea of the extra big hole this expanding load makes in human flesh, we would advise that you load this bullet in your chamber, followed by a magazine full of our non-expanding loads. So, if the first shot does not incapacitate the attacker, your magazine is full of ammo that will, if you can put the bullet in his spine or brain from any angle. Note my "real world" velocities from my personal "real world" pistols.

    1. BDA-3.75 inch barrel----1218 fps
    2. Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel-----1200 fps
    3. Colt Mustang Pocket Lite-2.75 inch barrel---1123 fps
    4. Keltec---1100 fps

    Field Proven pistol and handgun ammo. Maximum firepower ammo. Best ammunition for pistols and handguns for sale. Buffalo Bore. Strictly big bore. Strictly Business.

    Attention!
    You must be 18 or older to order ammunition. Ammunition must ship UPS ground. Due to Department of Transportation regulations, we cannot accept returns on Ammunition. Make sure to use the correct ammunition in your gun. Check local laws before ordering.

  5. #4
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    I am willing to use the hot stuff in my Kel Tec P3AT. It is of locked breech design and has digested perhaps a hundred of the hot Spanish Santa Barbara loads which have ballistics similar to that of the Buffalo Bore. Such ammunition is very snappy and the pistol also flings the empty cases with enthusiasm. So far the pistol has held up fine. I don't practice with such ammunition but do stoke up the pistol with it for toting.

    Strangely, to me the P3AT doesn't seem have the perceived recoil that any of several blow-back .380 pistols have. It isn't a pleasant gun to fire but is controllable.

  6. #5
    Member Array naking's Avatar
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    Why not just shoot enough of the Buffalo Bore to make sure it functions properly and revert back to standard .380 for practice?

  7. #6
    Member Array j21blackjack's Avatar
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    I carry the BB 100gr Hard Lead rounds in my Sig P238. There is a slight increase in felt recoil, but not as much as I thouhgt it would be.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    QKShooter:

    Just curious ...

    Is post number three your personal experience or is the information lifted from the BB web site? I was thinking the latter, but the constant first-person references struck me as odd for a company site.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  9. #8
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    That is from the Buffalo Bore site.
    I have shot Buffalo Bore and it's super high quality ammo.
    In .380 it's about the best there is for carry/SD.

    "So whatever 380 ammo you shoot him in the face with, had better go through his face and blow his brain stem out the back of his head, because only a CNS (central nervous system) hit with a 380 is going to stop him."

    I totally agree that .380 needs to be able to crash through facial bone in order to be an effective carry caliber.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good FMJ is the ticket for the .380 smaller calibers.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  11. #10
    Member Array FHBrumb's Avatar
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    I have fired quite a bit of 38+P BB rounds, and they certainly feel like the real deal. They are not 357 Magnums, by any means, but vastly more pop than any other 38+P I've fired.

    I like the BB idea of one hardcast in the tube, followed by JHPs. Even if you want those to be standard pressure, the first one being a real banger seems like an interesting idea. And at contact to 10 feet, POA will be POI for any load.

    BUT... As has been said, there is no standard for a 380+P. So this means no degree of voluntary standardization. BB could load these as hot as they like, and only the shooter has any degree of liability, if it eats your pet 380.

    They won't even tell you the pressure, so you can see how much +P they are talking about...

    Maybe this load with a 13 pound recoil spring, to help manage muzzle flip, would do the trick...
    Washington Post 06/28/2010 re: Supreme Court Decision
    "The court's decision means that the enigmatically worded Second Amendment... identifies an individual right to gun ownership, like the freedom of speech, that cannot be unduly restricted by Congress, state laws or city ordinances. "

  12. #11
    Member Array TrackReady's Avatar
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    Just FYI, BB isn't being wreckless with there +p... Basically what they did is made sure the pressures were under the proof loadings of the 380 barrels. Since the barrels are tested to much higher pressures than regular loadings. They sort of "split the difference" between the pressures.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FHBrumb View Post
    They won't even tell you the pressure, so you can see how much +P they are talking about...
    I have no doubt they are a reputable company, but I am not sure I want to shoot anything that I don't know what the working pressure is, especially in .380, and most certainly not in a pistol that is blowback operated.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  14. #13
    Member Array stoprilshoot's Avatar
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    you may not like the recoil but the higher pressure improves the function/reliability of the round so...

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoprilshoot View Post
    you may not like the recoil but the higher pressure improves the function/reliability of the round so...
    And may or may not have a deleterious effect on your pistol.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  16. #15
    Member Array stoprilshoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    And may or may not have a deleterious effect on your pistol.

    hee,hee,

    maybe yours, not mine.








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