Hornady Critical Defense with hard primers?

Hornady Critical Defense with hard primers?

This is a discussion on Hornady Critical Defense with hard primers? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was in Bass Pro tonight and checked if they had any Critical Defense .380 ammo. The sales guy said they didn't have any .380 ...

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Thread: Hornady Critical Defense with hard primers?

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array orangevol's Avatar
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    Hornady Critical Defense with hard primers?

    I was in Bass Pro tonight and checked if they had any Critical Defense .380 ammo. The sales guy said they didn't have any .380 and went on to tell me about issues with hard primers in Hornady CD ammo.

    I googled this and there are quite a few accounts of this problem. Anyone here experience this first hand?
    Proud NRA member


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array Don Glock's Avatar
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    i've read about other issues with this ammo, where the red tip insert material caused it not to expand at all through denim (exactly what it's supposed to prevent!)

    The .38SP Hornardy Critical Defense failed to expand after 4 layers of denim and the bullet design was supposed to expand after penetrating heavy clothing!



    i stay away from this "gimmicky" ammo. :)

  3. #3
    Member Array rico68's Avatar
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    I don't have a ton of experience with Hornady CD, but .... I picked up some for my 9mm to see how it would run. I bought two boxes, fired 35 rounds of it. One round failed to ignite. Solid primer strike, visible dimple. I have well over a thousand rounds through this particular gun, never an issue with any other ammo. That's my only experience with Critical Defense.

    With so many other top shelf self-defense rounds available, I probably won't be buying any more Hornady CD. I'll stick with HST, Win T-series or Gold Dot.

  4. #4
    Member Array cocojo's Avatar
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    Due to the unexpected failure of the Hornady FTX, a new batch was obtained from Hornady:

    Dave Emary of Hornady was good to his word and had the new .38 Sp FTX ammo shipment to us the next day. The new lot of standard pressure Hornady FTX, as well as a +P load, worked much better than in the previous test.

    .38 Sp Hornady 110 gr FTX "Critical Defense", Average velocity = 876fps
    Penetration Recovered Diameter Recovered Length Recovered Weight
    Bare Gelatin 12.7" 0.46" 0.40" 108.9gr
    4-layer denim 14.2" 0.42" 0.55" 108.9gr


    .38 Sp Hornady 110 gr +P FTX "Critical Defense", Average velocity = 940fps
    Penetration Recovered Diameter Recovered Length Recovered Weight
    Bare Gelatin 12.3" 0.52" 0.38" 109.0gr
    4-layer denim 14.6" 0.46" 0.43" 109.5gr


    We also opened up a new case of Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P JHP (53121), lot #L24N34, packed in a new type of 50 rd black box (previous lots have used a gold box) to serve as a control and comparison round.

    .38 Sp Speer 135 gr +P JHP Gold Dot, Average velocity = 808fps (low of 744fps-high of 853 fps)
    Penetration Recovered Diameter Recovered Length Recovered Weight
    Bare Gelatin 12.2" 0.51" 0.51" 135.0gr
    4-layer denim 19+" 0.39" 0.62" 135.1gr

    While the Gold Dots were acceptable in bare gel, the 4 layer denim test was an unexpected and heretofore unseen disaster, with the NO test shots exhibiting adequate expansion. The inconsistent velocity with overly large spread was of significant concern and likely plays a role in this failure.

    110 gr standard pressure Horn FTX in BG top & in 4LD middle; 4LD 135 gr +P GD bottom:
    ************************************************** **
    Don Glock if your going to post information get all the info. A second batch worked just fine and the Gold Dot 135 did not.
    The load looks good to me. Good penetration with moderate expansion.

  5. #5
    Ex Member Array Don Glock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocojo View Post
    Due to the unexpected failure of the Hornady FTX, a new batch was obtained from Hornady:

    Dave Emary of Hornady was good to his word and had the new .38 Sp FTX ammo shipment to us the next day. The new lot of standard pressure Hornady FTX, as well as a +P load, worked much better than in the previous test.

    .38 Sp Hornady 110 gr FTX "Critical Defense", Average velocity = 876fps
    Penetration Recovered Diameter Recovered Length Recovered Weight
    Bare Gelatin 12.7" 0.46" 0.40" 108.9gr
    4-layer denim 14.2" 0.42" 0.55" 108.9gr


    .38 Sp Hornady 110 gr +P FTX "Critical Defense", Average velocity = 940fps
    Penetration Recovered Diameter Recovered Length Recovered Weight
    Bare Gelatin 12.3" 0.52" 0.38" 109.0gr
    4-layer denim 14.6" 0.46" 0.43" 109.5gr


    We also opened up a new case of Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P JHP (53121), lot #L24N34, packed in a new type of 50 rd black box (previous lots have used a gold box) to serve as a control and comparison round.

    .38 Sp Speer 135 gr +P JHP Gold Dot, Average velocity = 808fps (low of 744fps-high of 853 fps)
    Penetration Recovered Diameter Recovered Length Recovered Weight
    Bare Gelatin 12.2" 0.51" 0.51" 135.0gr
    4-layer denim 19+" 0.39" 0.62" 135.1gr

    While the Gold Dots were acceptable in bare gel, the 4 layer denim test was an unexpected and heretofore unseen disaster, with the NO test shots exhibiting adequate expansion. The inconsistent velocity with overly large spread was of significant concern and likely plays a role in this failure.

    110 gr standard pressure Horn FTX in BG top & in 4LD middle; 4LD 135 gr +P GD bottom:
    ************************************************** **
    Don Glock if your going to post information get all the info. A second batch worked just fine and the Gold Dot 135 did not.
    The load looks good to me. Good penetration with moderate expansion.


    actually i pulled my info from a different source.

    however, you've simply proven my point (and every other poster's on this thread)--that this ammo is inconsistent...

  6. #6
    Member Array cocojo's Avatar
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    Don, If the Gold Dot 135 snub load had a problem with a particular batch, so could the Hornady. If anyone is using a snub nose gun and thinking that a hollow point of any kind is going to open up after cloth all the time there only fooling themselves. There is a chance it will work
    but a solid has no chance. It's all about placement and penetration anyway, so if we get no expansion you will have good penetration. I think their on the right track here, very modest expansion with good deep penetration. I see nothing wrong with that approach. I don't see this as gimmick ammunition. I just see it as another approach to find a good round for smaller guns.

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    Member Array ChihuahuaTN's Avatar
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    Ex Member Array Don Glock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChihuahuaTN View Post
    very interesting link, thank you for posting that. here's an excerpt:

    Post is dead on, (click above link) I would not trust any Critical Defense ammo. I have had multiple FTF (fire) on 4 different guns (LCP, R9s P380 and 92FS), 2 different calibers (.380 and 9mm) 4 different hand gun manufactures to date.

    I spoke with Ruger weeks ago about this after I sent in my LCP because the only ammo it would not fire is CD, and they stated that they have been getting many calls about this exact ammo issue. My LCP, P380 and R9s only have issues with CD ammo. Multiple posts on the LCP, Rohrbaugh and other forums have many people stating the exact same FTF issue. I suspect it is because they are using S&B primers they are definitely dancing around the issue of anything wrong on their end. I wont trust any CD ammo in any of my guns because of this. Below are photos 9mm and .380 illustrating FTF (fire) that have happened to me at the range.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array RemMod597's Avatar
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    I've been reading too much about HCD reliability issues and pulled that load from my wife's carry setup last night. We haven't had any issues with HCD yet, but really don't want to be a test case.
    Replaced with 147gr. Gold Dots.


    Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are cunning and you sleep with your mouth open.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    When you really wanta hear bang but only hear "click" that's pretty critical to your defense
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    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array orangevol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChihuahuaTN View Post
    Thanks for linking this to your original post, I had not seen that one. Very interesting details here, just when you think a manufacturer has solved the problems, they only create more to be concerned with.
    Proud NRA member

  12. #12
    Member Array cocojo's Avatar
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    I have to tell you I have shot about three hundred rounds of 38 special mostly standard velocity with some +p's. Also about 100 rounds of 9mm critical defense ammo and have not had one failure to fire yet. I have total confidence in this ammo in my guns. Now could that ammo caused problems in some other gun, which may have light firing pin hits or hit off center, possibly. I shoot older Colts and Smiths and have not had any problems. I have found this ammo is extremely accurate in my snubs. Carry what you feel confident in. Light hits are gun problems along with off center hits. You can't always blame the ammunition for that.

  13. #13
    Member Array ChihuahuaTN's Avatar
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ChihuahuaTN View Post
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...se-ammo-3.html

    my post.........
    Thanks for linking this to your original post, I had not seen that one. Very interesting details here, just when you think a manufacturer has solved the problems, they only create more to be concerned with.
    Anything to help out a fellow vols fan, I just want to say and go on record as saying I have nothing against Hornady I have to date no issues with there non-Critical Defense ammo lines.
    Also I feel that many people have invested a lot of money in there premium ammo only to get FTF "clicks" with Critical Defense ammo, I wont trust their product based on my own experiences, bottom line ...its not personal just strictly business.

    Also please read the following links they offer more info

    Do these primers look like they should have gone bang?//Response from Hornady added - Page 3

    The Rohrbaugh Forum - Non-Scientific Ammo test

    Problem with Hornady Critical Defense - 1911Forum

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    I'd much rather use the Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket ammo.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. If only I COULD FIND SOME!
    ,=====o00o _
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  15. #15
    Member Array anj4657's Avatar
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    I had problems with critical Defense in .38 spl. Only every other round would go off. 3 out of 5 misfired, I reoaded the 3 rounds and 2 went off the second time around.

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