Real world testing on The Best Defense

Real world testing on The Best Defense

This is a discussion on Real world testing on The Best Defense within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The new season of The Best Defense is out and they are doing some interesting real world testing. Specifically, they fired different calibers into a ...

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Thread: Real world testing on The Best Defense

  1. #1
    Member Array louie19's Avatar
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    Real world testing on The Best Defense

    The new season of The Best Defense is out and they are doing some interesting real world testing.

    Specifically, they fired different calibers into a bookcase that had some books in it. The purpose was to see if it would provide cover.

    I'll have to go back and check but it seemed like:
    38 special hollowpoint - 2 paperback books + one bookshelf side
    9mm hollowpoint - 4-5 paperback books + one bookshelf side
    40 hollowpoint - 2 hardcover books + one bookshelf side
    45 (ball) - 1 hardcover book + one bookshelf side

    What was interesting and I don't mean to start a caliber war, was that they said the myth was that 45 ball would penetrate through anything and was the ultimate man stopper. I kind of wish they had used a 45 hollowpoint and also that they had been consistent with paperback and hardcover.

    The conclusion it seems is that a bookcase full of books will give you cover as long as you're to the side of it.

    Anyways I thought it was interesting because it was not ballistics gel or water jugs. I think they're going to fire at refrigerators and other household objects in upcoming episodes.


  2. #2
    Member Array albaraptor's Avatar
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    Yeah they shot through a fridge in one the other day.The only thing that didn't go through was 12 guage loaded with birdshot.
    Shoot first ask questions later

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    Member Array uncballzer's Avatar
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    what stations and when does this show run? thx
    BLONDIE: You may run the risks, my friend, but I do the cutting. If we cut down my percentage... cigar? Liable to interfere with my aim.

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    Member Array tradermike69's Avatar
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    Runs on the Outdoor Channel,, On Wensday nights, The whole night is GUNS, so cool,, But let me say,, If you have a fridge in your house,, Wouldn't you at least have some fishsticks or tv dinners in the fridge? LOL,, Really like Mike and Ron, on these shows. Also Mike Bane

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    I've added it to my TIVO season pass. In addition to discussing these and self-defense tips, they also often take the time to point out avoidance as a primary means of self-defense. A very worthwhile show, imho.
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    Senior Member Array paul45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tradermike69 View Post
    If you have a fridge in your house,, Wouldn't you at least have some fishsticks or tv dinners in the fridge?
    Not in this economy! Food comes after ammo!
    "Being PARANOID is just plain smart thinking when they are really out to get you!"

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    Senior Member Array RebelRabbi's Avatar
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    You never hear about this on the streets but Prison Inmates sometimes make Homemade Body Armour from newspaper and Phone books. It's surprisingly effective against edged weapons and shotgun pellets at medium ranges + 40 Yards or so.

  8. #8
    Member Array MoResident's Avatar
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    From the sound of it, my pocket bible does me no good in my shirt pocket.

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    Ex Member Array Mike9mm's Avatar
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    From someone who has actually shot people in Vietnam and been shot in Vietnam, the human body was not made to sustain any size object hitting it at 1000 feet a second or better whether it is round or hollow pointed.

    That said, my home defense weapon is a Mossy 500 loaded with 00 buckshot. That is nine 9mm lead projectiles flying at the aggressor at every trigger pull. One or two of those and the party is over and one hell of a mess to clean up.

    I also know for a fact from my son, in the sand box at the present time, that the 12 gauge shotgun with a short barrel 18.5 Mossy is still the most effective entry and clearing weapon. Door Breaching, Attack Dogs and all that good stuff they think up over there.

    Have you noticed there is no ammo shortage on 12 Gauge ammo either!

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by albaraptor View Post
    Yeah they shot through a fridge in one the other day.The only thing that didn't go through was 12 guage loaded with birdshot.
    What I hated about this, and most all tests of same, is that they did not _define_ what specific load they fired.
    To say 'birdshot' is meaningless as akin to say 'buckshot'.

    Birdshot, like buckshot, is available in a wide variety of loadings by projectile size and weight. Birds come in sizes from swans, goose and turkey to starlings.
    One size does not fit all even as one generic term is very often applied.

    Still though whatever birdshot they had fired did though penetrate the freezer compartment of the unit they had as through the front side and into the the inner skin of the rear side.
    It was lost enough energy that by the time it hit the insulation on the back side it was unable to penetrate the rear sides most sheet metal.
    So even with 'birdshot' a refrigerator is not a sure bet for cover and is concealment at best in my book.

    Not that I would ever think to use a refrigerator or bookcase and stack of books (!)in my home as anything but concealment at very best.
    I saw these episodes and was like what are they trying to show exactly? Who in their right mind would think a bookshelf to be cover?

    IIRC Pincus is a member here.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  11. #11
    Member Array Rob Pincus's Avatar
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    I saw these episodes and was like what are they trying to show exactly? Who in their right mind would think a bookshelf to be cover?
    I think that is kinda the point we were trying to make. Many people may not realize that even just a few books on top of a desk, let alone a full bookshelf WILL stop just about any typical home defense round.

    I appreciate you guys watching and discussing the demonstrations. That is really the bottom line goal... we wanted to show some performance of typical loads against typical intermediate barriers. These were not clinical "tests", nor were they meant to be comprehensive. We couldn't possibly show every type of bullet/load/caliber combination against exactly the same media on a TV show, so we just chose some popular generic choices. Getting into a semantic debate over the Hydrashok versus the Silvertip would be outside the scope of what we were trying to do: Raise awareness and motivate a critical thinking process in both ammunition selection and tactical plan for home/family defense.

    -Rob

  12. #12
    Member Array Tar Heel's Avatar
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    Re: Real world testing on The Best Defense

    It seems like Rob said it best - in no way could they show each manufacturer, caliber, and weight (although I do wish they had used a hollow point round .45 ACP with the book shelf demonstration and stated what bullet weight was being used). The bottom line is to demonstrate cover and concealment in the average home, which probably has a book shelf and fridge. While we all have our preferences in caliber, weight, etc., I think it's safe to say that most SD rounds in any given weight perform roughly the same if tested in the same weapon.

    What makes this show nice (and my wife completely agrees) is the variety: real world situations, such as a night at a restaurant/bar, at home watching TV, etc., a segment on ballistic demonstrations, an effective hand-to-hand combat/martial arts segment, and a quick chat regarding concealed carry. I just wish the show was an hour instead of 30 minutes.
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    Member Array tradermike69's Avatar
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    Hey Rob Great show,, I see you had some water in the fridge last time.. You all stepped up the show alot,, And the knife demo by Mike really hit home with the pork roast. in the knee, Keep up the great shows on Wensday night at the range!!

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Pincus View Post
    I think that is kinda the point we were trying to make. Many people may not realize that even just a few books on top of a desk, let alone a full bookshelf WILL stop just about any typical home defense round.

    I appreciate you guys watching and discussing the demonstrations. That is really the bottom line goal... we wanted to show some performance of typical loads against typical intermediate barriers. These were not clinical "tests", nor were they meant to be comprehensive. We couldn't possibly show every type of bullet/load/caliber combination against exactly the same media on a TV show, so we just chose some popular generic choices. Getting into a semantic debate over the Hydrashok versus the Silvertip would be outside the scope of what we were trying to do: Raise awareness and motivate a critical thinking process in both ammunition selection and tactical plan for home/family defense.

    -Rob
    well, after watching the show, I concluded I better open fire first as my home is only 1100 ft² and there ain't crap between me and the BG(s) except one, possibly two standard 2x4 walls

    My only advantage is, I know were they are. Hopefully they won't know were I am until AFTER my first volley

    your show sure does give one something to think about, thanx for that
    HAPPY NEW YEAR
    INFIDELS

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array paul45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Pincus View Post
    I think that is kinda the point we were trying to make. Many people may not realize that even just a few books on top of a desk, let alone a full bookshelf WILL stop just about any typical home defense round.

    I appreciate you guys watching and discussing the demonstrations. That is really the bottom line goal... we wanted to show some performance of typical loads against typical intermediate barriers. These were not clinical "tests", nor were they meant to be comprehensive. We couldn't possibly show every type of bullet/load/caliber combination against exactly the same media on a TV show, so we just chose some popular generic choices. Getting into a semantic debate over the Hydrashok versus the Silvertip would be outside the scope of what we were trying to do: Raise awareness and motivate a critical thinking process in both ammunition selection and tactical plan for home/family defense.

    -Rob
    Rob,
    Keep up the GREAT work! I have recorded all your shows and have gone back and watched them a number of times. I always find something new / refreshing on each show.
    "Being PARANOID is just plain smart thinking when they are really out to get you!"

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