Reloading Defensive Ammunition?

Reloading Defensive Ammunition?

This is a discussion on Reloading Defensive Ammunition? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello, I would like your take on this. I know the gun rags would have you believe that reloading ammo for defense is a bad ...

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 48

Thread: Reloading Defensive Ammunition?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Wabash IN
    Posts
    675

    Reloading Defensive Ammunition?

    Hello,

    I would like your take on this.

    I know the gun rags would have you believe that reloading ammo for defense is a bad idea.

    However, I've yet to find a steady supply of defensive ammo - but I do have a ready supply of components in .45acp: Brass (new if I want), 230gn old style Remington HP bullets, which I love, and Winchester primers.

    I seat to a depth of 1.265" COL, charged with 5.2gn of Bullseye, which is the maximum I find listed for this style bullet. No pressure signs and I'm seated a bit further out.

    This combo has no muzzle flash and at least keeps up with the modern, expensive factory offerings.

    It feeds very reliably, and I have complete and total confidence in the load and my ability to reload. The primers never touch my hands, for example - no contamination at all the way I do it (I work in medicine and use many of the same cross-contamination prevention procedures in reloading as we do with patients). (I recently had to run a very well known and popular name brand through a resizing die to make it work - it looked very hurried and would not feed correctly - definitely not what it used to be).

    Honestly, it's the best load I've found. And the cheapest. And did I mention it keeps up with modern wonder bullets?

    I've not seen one single case in which reloads came into play if a shoot was righteous.

    Can'o'worms open; what are your opinions?

    Thanks,

    Josh


  2. #2
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,150
    I'll carry my handloads. They are assembled with care and I trust them.

    I haven't heard of any actual instance where handloaded ammunition affected the outcome of an otherwise valid self-protection incident. There could be an example on record. If there is, then it is an example of a twisted justice system. The jurisdiction in which the incident takes place may have some bearing. I'm simply not concerned here.

    "I know the gun rags would have you believe that reloading ammo for defense is a bad idea."

    Folks dither.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    9,108
    I say go for it. I reload all of my own defensive ammo, and I believe the rumors of legal ramifications are nothing but urban legend based on hypothetical court room scenarios. If it is a justified shooting with factory fodder, its a justified shooting with handloads. Gun rags a great for reading, but they do promote a lot of products for money, and they are also full of hype.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,817
    You will get brought to your attention a few cases that Ayoob cites, one being where a mentally unstable woman shoots herself with a gun that was not kept secure from her. I forget what the other ones were about.

    None that I can recall where the actual load of the bullet in a self defense situation was the reason for any conviction.

    Do I have a problem with carrying handloaded SD ammo, nope. Would I do it, yep. I just haven't taken the time to work up to the loads that I want to use yet.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
    www.ddchl.com
    Texas CHL Instructor
    Texas Hunter Education Instructor
    NRA Instructor

  5. #5
    Member Array RunawayGun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    48
    My brother shoots almost 100% reloads that he does himself and hasn't ran into any major issues. I've personally fired several hundred of his reloads without a single malfunction from any of the rounds. I'd say if you have the means to do it start shooting them often so you can figure out whether or not it's reliable enough.

  6. #6
    Member Array ScubaDuba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Posts
    431
    Ayoob writes about handloads that differ from the factory original load, thereby messing up the forensic types. He specifically mentions a case where a woman had extremely light 38 sp loads, and the forensics people concluded she was much further away from the BG than she really was.
    Healthy children will not fear life, if their parents have integrity enough not to fear death.
    -TIME DEUM ET OPERARE IUSTITIAM--

  7. #7
    Member Array 4evrinblujns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    244
    Mr Ayoob states (Artical in 2010 handguns annual) it is not a good idea. Personally I have store bought in two clips and the third is FMJ.

  8. #8
    Member Array Beachbumcook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kansas City Metro
    Posts
    170
    Reasons to use/carry factory ammo:

    1) If "test samples" shoot well, then factory is safer and probably more reliable (I know this is open to individual interpretation).

    2) Factory loads can be "duplicated" in a CSI format. Meaning, if there is any question about a self defense shooting (distance from perp and the like), the use of factory loads can be 100% duplicated to show powder burns, powder spread and the bullet duplication.

    3) A good DA will try and "spin in front of a jury" that your loads were hot or custom designed for more power or something along those lines. As much as he may not be able to prove it, you can't disprove it or have your ammo tested to disprove. Factory ammo is factory ammo and all tests can be replicated, proved and supported by the factory.

    I personally only want new, never fired ammo that is factory certified for my self defense ammunition... but that is me. I have heard stories by DA's and attorney's representing the deceased, that the use of "hollow-points" are in-humane and meant to kil... and an uninformed jury may believe them!!! Every law enforcement agency I know, uses hollow-points to reduce or eliminate "through shots", richochets and the need for 1 shot stopping power (to stop the threat, not necessarily to kill the attacker).

    Obviously, the answer to this question is like asking what is better... "boxer or briefs"... to each their own... but I hope the above statements at least are considerations for people to think about.

    Thanks,
    Springfield XDM 40cal
    Safariland Double Magazine Duty Pouch
    High Noon "Slide Guard" Holster - Leather (OWB)
    BladeTech "Eclipse" Holster - Kydex (OWB)
    Aker Reinforced Gun Belt (Leather & Polymer)
    Wilderness Tactical/Operator Belt (Kydex Reinforced)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Wabash IN
    Posts
    675
    Farron,

    That is one nice looking wolf there. Reminds me of my old boy, Tikka. He was at least 85% wolf.

    The ex-fiance has him, but I go over to see him now and again. He's probably the sweetest "dog" I've met.

    At this point I have a dog that is Yellow Lab/Husky/GSD/Wolf. Very friendly, protective, and loyal. Wolfish tendencies and some coarse fur on her back, but mostly she looks like a very big Lab with smallish floppy ears.

    Very, VERY intelligent and if I tell her to go get a squirrel I shot, she will walk to it, pick it up, and bring it right back to hand every time, as long as she has the scent.

    She doesn't take much training and is just an overall awesome dog.

    I often say the closer to wolf a dog is, the more intelligent it is. I believe this 100%.

    Enough jacking my own thread! :D

    Josh

  10. #10
    Member Array Beachbumcook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kansas City Metro
    Posts
    170
    I just ordered (from Cabela's) the latest and greatest hollow-point ammo from Hornady.

    Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Handgun :: Choose by Caliber :: 40 S&W :: 40 S&W 165 gr Critical Defense®

    The link above is for the 40-cal, but it is available in all popular calibers as of January 2010.

    I will shoot one box to test and then will load up one magazine as my daily carry gun ammo.

    Interesting design and specifications. There are some Youtube tests already uploaded to the Youtube site on the Critical Defense series Hornady hollow-point ammo.
    Springfield XDM 40cal
    Safariland Double Magazine Duty Pouch
    High Noon "Slide Guard" Holster - Leather (OWB)
    BladeTech "Eclipse" Holster - Kydex (OWB)
    Aker Reinforced Gun Belt (Leather & Polymer)
    Wilderness Tactical/Operator Belt (Kydex Reinforced)

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    9,108
    I am personally aware of 2 cases where reloads were used in shootings, and neither time was it a factor in the case. Neither case went to trial. It is not true that handloads cannot be duplicated. As a matter of fact, people who handload make more consistant ammo than factory fodder. Factory equipment must be readjusted from time to time, that its why groups in accuracy may very from lot number to lot number. To duplicate any load, just assemble the same conponets and use the same powder/charge weight.

  12. #12
    Member Array hengst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    185
    I reload for all of my weapons be it for hunting or SD...They all shoot safely and reliably not to mention the money I have saved....I da can try an dsay all they want I reload according to reloading manuals and they are all within saami guidlines..I also would be more than happy to let CSI Miami know what type and howmuch powder I used along with what type (hornady xtp .45) round used along with coal..they can do a test then...I can find a case against doing almost anything in this world due to a bad outcome in court
    Led By Love Of Country

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    9,108
    I believe Ayoob is a good man, and is an expert at what he does. However, he is on the payroll of a rags who advertise for the big name manafacturers. There are other experts out there who does not agree with what he says all the time. I have been an LEO for 15 years and have not been in a trial or heard of a shooting, either criminal or self defense where a handload was called into question. I really believe you are fine using handloads. But if you want to be sure, and feel good about it, make an appointment with a criminal law attorney, and then go talk to your local prosecuter and get their view on it.

  14. #14
    Member Array 4evrinblujns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    244
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I believe Ayoob is a good man, and is an expert at what he does. However, he is on the payroll of a rags who advertise for the big name manafacturers. There are other experts out there who does not agree with what he says all the time. I have been an LEO for 15 years and have not been in a trial or heard of a shooting, either criminal or self defense where a handload was called into question. I really believe you are fine using handloads. But if you want to be sure, and feel good about it, make an appointment with a criminal law attorney, and then go talk to your local prosecuter and get their view on it.
    Very good advice.
    Last edited by JD; February 7th, 2010 at 10:42 AM.

  15. #15
    Member Array hengst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    185
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I believe Ayoob is a good man, and is an expert at what he does. However, he is on the payroll of a rags who advertise for the big name manafacturers. There are other experts out there who does not agree with what he says all the time. I have been an LEO for 15 years and have not been in a trial or heard of a shooting, either criminal or self defense where a handload was called into question. I really believe you are fine using handloads. But if you want to be sure, and feel good about it, make an appointment with a criminal law attorney, and then go talk to your local prosecuter and get their view on it.
    Very well put..I have been dogged out a little vis a vis my thoughts on Mr. Ayoob...probably should have said it this way.


    disclaimer.....Masaad Ayoob is an expert,very respected and has done alot for us but not all that he says is set in stone as with any expert...For any expert opinion you can find another expert that would have another expert opinion..be smart..
    Led By Love Of Country

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Defensive ammunition conundrum
    By cj in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: September 10th, 2009, 11:48 PM
  2. Defensive rifle or defensive Shotgun?
    By DMan in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: January 26th, 2009, 08:35 PM
  3. Ammunition 'going off' by itself
    By CTurner91 in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: December 14th, 2008, 10:48 AM
  4. A ban on Defensive ammunition?
    By dsee11789 in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: November 8th, 2008, 03:17 PM
  5. 45 Long Colt defensive ammunition choices?
    By bae in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: February 19th, 2007, 07:58 AM

Search tags for this page

cheap defense bullets to reload
,
defensive handloads
,
handload defense ammo
,
handloading defensive ammo
,
hornady critical defense bullets for reloading
,
reload defense ammo
,
reload defensive ammo
,

reloading defense ammo

,

reloading defensive ammo

,
reloading defensive ammunition
,
reloading self defense ammunition
,
reloading to duplicate hornady critical defense 45 colt ammunitionballistics with lead bullets
Click on a term to search for related topics.