Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?

Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?

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Thread: Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?

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    Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?

    Hope this is in the proper FORUM.!



    For ALL those who enjoy reading compelling information, or are looking for great documented info. pertaining to RKBA and our American way of life, compared to the rest of the world.



    Click on the link, then once there it will show a headliner,
    Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International Evidence.
    Click on the bar beneath the two names Don Kates and Gary Mauser, that says ; download the paper.
    It will download in a PDF- like file
    Thisis 117 pages long but it appears a good read.. http://law.bepress.com/expresso/eps/1564/


    A lot of footnotes are part of the 117 pages


    To give you an idea whats inside
    Here is an excerpt from the writing;;

    Whatever the reason, the upshot is that violent crime, and homicide in particular, have
    plummeted in the United States over the past 15 years.26 The fall in the American crime rate is
    even more impressive when compared with the rest of the world.
    In 18 of the 25 countries
    surveyed by the British Home Office, violent crime increased during the 1990s27. This contrast
    should provoke thinking people to wonder what happened in those nations adopting policies
    based on the belief that introducing more and more restrictive firearm laws would reduce criminal
    violence. Perhaps the United States is doing something right. Further research is required to
    identify more precisely which elements of their approach is the most important, or whether all
    three elements acting in concert with each other was necessary to reduce criminal violence.
    This article will examine a broad range of international data that bear on two distinct but
    interrelated questions: first, whether widespread firearm access is an important contributing factor
    in murder and/or suicide, and second, whether the introduction of laws that restrict general access
    to firearms has been successful in reducing violent crime, homicide or suicide. Our conclusion
    from the available data is that suicide, murder and violent crime rates are determined by basic
    social, economic and/or cultural factors with the availability of any particular one of the world’s
    25 See Thomas Bonczar and Tracy L. Snell, CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, 2003, Bureau of Justice Statistics
    Bulletin, November 2004, NJC 206627.
    26 These trends are easily seen in the Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) data on the website of the federal Bureau
    of Investigation (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm).
    27 See G. Barclay, C. Tavare, and A. Siddique (2001). INTERNATIONAL COMPARISONS OF
    CRIMINAL JUSTICE STATISTICS, 1999. Issue 6/01 (May). Digital document available from
    http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/.
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  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Would banning firearms reduce the murder rate?

    No!

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    Murder has been in the hearts of men since the days of Adam and Eve.

    Banning the tools to do it will only mean that a different tool will be used.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    And banning firearms will not reduce the suicide rate either.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

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    If it didn't stop Cain, it won't stop anyone today.OMOYMV
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    Banning guns won't reduce the suicide rate.

    Japan - a country whose competitive shooters have to train elsewhere due to the unavailability of firearms - has a suicide rate more than double that of the US.

    There simply is no correlation between gun rights, gun availability, and suicide rates. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_suicide_rate
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    New Zealand, Australia, and the UK all have experienced a rise in violent crimes since their guns were taken away. Ask them how they feel about it now, as they are all "upset" and want them back.

    While I was in Canada, there were "murders" on the front page of the paper every day I was there. Killed via strangulation, knives, baseball bats, etc. They love to use "murder" rates here in the USA to argue about against "guns", but people forget guns are not necessarily the majority method on how murders are committed here either.

    Strangulation, knives, baseball bats, misc blunt trama objects, poison, drowning, throwing people off of buildings, run over by cars, etc. all occur. It seemed like couples throwing their spouse off the sides of Cruise ships was becoming a new thing there for awhile.
    Last edited by Eagleks; February 14th, 2011 at 12:40 AM.
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    Definitely not. I live in Germany where firearms are strictly regulated and there are murders and suicides. I do have to admit that I feel safer in Germany than I felt while living in Texas. Nonetheless, I think that is not because of firearms but rather because Germany has a solidarity government structure that provides health care and welfare for citizens in need, immigration control is tough, a highly trained and professional police force, a very strong and stable economy and most important, a very educated and ethical society. I think that if any government wants to eliminate murder and suicides, they should focus mostly on education, employment and psychological programs. Firearms are just tools and if they are banned, then the person will just switch to another tool such as a knife, fire, hammer, baseball bat, a rope, poison, a chainsaw, a nail gun or whatever it can use to kill others or themselves.
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    Would banning forks and spoons, prevent people from being overweight ?

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    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Banning guns won't reduce the suicide rate.

    Japan - a country whose competitive shooters have to train elsewhere due to the unavailability of firearms - has a suicide rate more than double that of the US.

    There simply is no correlation between gun rights, gun availability, and suicide rates. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_suicide_rate
    I agree. Nonetheless, the issue with Japan's high suicide rate has to do more with the Japanese culture of extremely hard work, strict discipline, strict and tough education program and their obsessive and constant pursue of perfection in all aspects of their lives rather than the banning of firearms.
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]

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    Quote Originally Posted by alachner View Post
    I agree. Nonetheless, the issue with Japan's high suicide rate has to do more with the Japanese culture of extremely hard work, strict discipline, strict and tough education program and their obsessive and constant pursue of perfection in all aspects of their lives rather than the banning of firearms.
    You're making my point... it's not the availability or unavailability of the tool, it's the mindset and culture.
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    I've known a few people who committed suicided. Hanging, knife, pills, and knife again. Not one with a gun. Granted there is no scientific data there, but 2 of the 4 had immediate access to guns, but did not use them. Banning guns won't do a thing to improve anything.
    -Ryan

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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    I have an idea; lets ban murder and suicide............ we can ban lots of stuff; drugs, gambling, hold on none of those worked???? ok lets ban guns........

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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    You're making my point... it's not the availability or unavailability of the tool, it's the mindset and culture.
    Not necessarily. The fact that a culture would allow the ownership of a tool (such as a firearm) also speaks to the mindset of that society / culture.

    IMHO, I can never tell, as a matter of scientific data, if allowing ownership of firearms increases or decreases crime. The vast majority of the studies on the topic are skewed by the group doing the study.

    One thing I am sure of, is crime often takes the path of least resistance. For example, if a car has a key system that makes it impossible to hot wire, then a criminal will pass on that car. However this can also increase the desire to find some other method to steal this car. So a more violent criminal with attempt a car-jacking.

    The same happens with firearms. If one town has strick firearm laws, and accross the river another town has many armed, then criminals will choose the easy target. However, you might find the agressive / violent criminals find opportunities in the armed towns, and escalate the methods used in the armed town. In addition, if the unarmed town becomes armed, it will not wipe out all crime in both towns, just likely escalate the methods used by criminals.

    These are meandering thought that I think are true. I might agree that societal firearm ownership does not increase crime, I might also agree firearm ownership does not decrease crime, I just know my cc, provides options I might not have without, when a crime is being commited against me, and society should mind its own business when it comes to my safety unless it can prevent the crime in the first place (something it can't regardless of firearm ownership).

    To sum up, firearm ownership increases the odds of injury by a firearm, for both me and the criminal. However the social norm does not have everyone armed, so by being armed I do increase my personal odds of not being beat to death. This ownership will increasing the odds I may be injured by a firearm, just like a person who has stairs in their house increases their chance to be injured by a fall then someone who owns a home without stairs. Why it is a good idea to store firearms safely (for example, I always store loaded firerarms in a holster) and instal items for basic home safety (like a rail for a stair case).
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?
    Almost certainly, a person seeking to commit suicide would have to find another method if firearms were very hard to come by. Almost certainly, many would find it harder to commit the act, without the easy out of a firearm death. But would that necessarily translate into an overall drop in the incidence of suicides? Who can say.

    Same with murder. Murder with a firearm is relatively simple, and it can be achieved at a distance. Requiring a hands-on, in-your-face method of killing someone demands a bit more willingness to get down and dirty. I'd bet that not as many would be so willing, if it required such changes. But a host of other tools are available to a murderer. Who can say whether the rate of murder in a population would change much via such a ban. In the case of murder, too, keep in mind that a ban's effects are largely focused on upstanding citizens, those not committing murders in the first place. If history is any guide, bans show that many criminals will continue to have the ability to find a firearm despite such bans.

    As for comparing statistics internationally, it gets tough to come up with conclusions given simple differences in what data is actually collected (or ignored) by certain governments, among other issues. Such problems are well documented in such "comparison" studies.
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