Arm bars, chokes, locks

This is a discussion on Arm bars, chokes, locks within the Defensive Books, Video & References forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have studied several martial arts and wrestled in my life. I have always loved them but I will say most martial arts are incredibly ...

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Thread: Arm bars, chokes, locks

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array fernset's Avatar
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    I have studied several martial arts and wrestled in my life. I have always loved them but I will say most martial arts are incredibly ineffective in real life. Haikido and krav maga arre proven to be the best ways to go in terms of self defense, not sport... sport will not say your life. Key to self defense is neutralizing the threat long enough to get away or for good. I for one believe chokes are the easiest and best way to go.

    Already knowing this are there any good DVDs of the above mentioned martial arts forms (Haikido & kravmaga)??? Suggestions??

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fernset View Post
    I have studied several martial arts and wrestled in my life. I have always loved them but I will say most martial arts are incredibly ineffective in real life. Haikido and krav maga arre proven to be the best ways to go in terms of self defense, not sport... sport will not say your life. Key to self defense is neutralizing the threat long enough to get away or for good. I for one believe chokes are the easiest and best way to go.

    Already knowing this are there any good DVDs of the above mentioned martial arts forms (Haikido & kravmaga)??? Suggestions??

    Do you mean Hapkido, or Aikido? There is a difference.

    Krav Maga is more of a self-defense system than a martial art.

    The effectiveness of ANY martial art has much more to do with the PRACTITIONER than the style itself, and much of that has to do with the quality of the INSTRUCTOR.

    Do NOT take anyone's claim that martial arts are ineffective at face value. ALWAYS do your own research. Talk to instructors. Talk to students. Take advantage of any free class offers.

    Regarding legitimate, established martial arts systems, any argument over one style over another may as well be an argument of one caliber over another.

    And that way lies madness.

    -JT

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Well way back when i was trained in koga , then ppct , and then i got the short straw and sparred with a fella who was kinda skilled in akido for a couple of years and we came to an agreement that i wouldnt shoot him if he did not put hands on me . I kid you not when there was a " bar riot " ( all the LE guys know what i mean ) his dept would stand at the door and send him in with officers following just to funnel arestees as he moved past them . He educated the heck out of me on arrest control and hand to hand , I educated him a bit on shooting .. It all worked out and he to his credit never broke me bad .
    Point is physical fighting is not something you learn , much less learn from a book or dvd , it is something you live . For myself i am older , out of practice , out of wind , ect .. Ill do my best to create distance and not grapple . If push comes to shove well ill cheat then use my cane to get into the courtroom .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  5. #19
    Member Array Lange's Avatar
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    If you do go into submission fighting, a lot of times, you will end up doing Brazilian Jujitsu. Be careful...a lot of BJJ schools do not cover takedowns or strike defense.

    While true, many fights go to ground, they usually start in neutral / standing. And if the fight is going to ground, don't you want to be the one who controls the manner is which it is brought to the ground (takedowns) or drop them to the ground (strikes)?

    I'd look into some MMA stuff, keeping in mind that you cannot gouge or gang up on people, or use random things found...(I like martial arts for the sport BTW)

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    If you want something quick, dirty, and effective I'd look at this set. I've seen it and McCann shows some great material (the striking portion is excellent) including some simple arm-bars and chokes. He also covers some good weapons defense stuff (gun disarms, knife defense, etc.). This is an excellent set. (you can probably find it on e-bay or amazon for less than what paladin charges)

    If you can find somewhere to train, I'll agree with those that recommended some form of MMA training (boxing, wrestling, BJJ, etc.).
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array the_fallguy's Avatar
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    I don't want to offend anybody here, but MMA is strictly a stream-lined sport, like hockey or baseball.....nothing more, nothing less. I know that it involves impressive striking and submission techniques that look like they would surely take someone out, but so would hitting them with a hockey stick or a baseball bat. I'm not saying that MMA is totally useless, but it's not going to prepare you to defend yourself for real, and it's especially not going to help you deal with the after math of a physical confrontation.

    If you want to learn combatives for self defense, try to find somewhere that covers concerns like the recognition of dangerous situations, how to transition to weapons, the legal use of force, how to defend yourself without looking like the bad guy (to an onlooking crowd that may be called as witnesses in court at a later date), how to deal with multiple (and often armed) assailants, and somewhere that puts you through realistic scenario training to test your application of the subject matter.

    If you go somewhere that doesn't advocate the use of firearms, that should probably be a red flag that says they aren't serious or realistic about real self defense.
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    Where self preservation is concerned, if you're not cheating, your not trying...

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    I don't want to get into a huge debate over MMA vs. combatives/martial-arts/whatever but I do want to make a couple of comments.

    • Just for a moment, let's ignore all the other skills (weapons, pre-fight/post fight issues, mindset, etc.) and just focus on the empty hand combat aspect. In this context, I feel that it's pretty safe to say that MMA type training (boxing, Muay-thai, wrestling, BJJ) is far superior to just about anything else out there. Why? because of the intensity and level of resistance found in MMA training that is not commonly found in most other systems. As a result of this increased "aliveness," the practicioners are able to pressure-test their material against someone who is actively trying to prevent them from doing so, and who is trying to do the exact same thing to them (knockout, submission, etc.). I personally feel that the average MMA guy would easily dominate the average practicioner of pretty much any other system in an empty-hand fight.

    • No one ever said MMA practicioners couldn't augment their skills with other training or alter their techniques to be more nasty. For example: the lead hand jab could just as easily be a tiger claw to the eyes, or they could be doing their punches with a push-dagger in their hands. Instead of going for a "tap-out" while on the ground, they could just break whatever limb they're cranking on. Or, use those same groundfighting skills to facilitate weapons access.
      As far as other training goes, there's nothing that says that just because a guy studies MMA, he can't be a shooter, or train with a blade, or attend FOF classes to "plug the gaps" in his "competition-oriented" fighting method.


    Just my $0.02...
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

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