Arm bars, chokes, locks

This is a discussion on Arm bars, chokes, locks within the Defensive Books, Video & References forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Anybody know of a good book on some simple submission holds like the police might use, and maybe some even more dangerous? Chokes, Arm Bars, ...

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Thread: Arm bars, chokes, locks

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Hivoltage's Avatar
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    Arm bars, chokes, locks

    Anybody know of a good book on some simple submission holds like the police might use, and maybe some even more dangerous?

    Chokes, Arm Bars, Wrist Locks, all in one book or DVD?
    Nothing Wrong With Shooting as Long as the Right People Get Shot.
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  3. #2
    Member Array Weedy's Avatar
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    Are you looking to get this information to learn for yourself?

    I have actually seem some good demonstration videos on You Tube. A lot of law enforcement actually uses self defense based on hapkido. There are a couple different variants of this, Combat Hapkido is all self defense only, with a total of about 6 attacks. The remainder of it consists of joint locks (properly referred to as controls), breakaways, pressure points, and holds. Your best bet for learning this type of information (at least IMHO) is to actually get involved in a class.

    Of course there are also other styles out there such as Krav Maga, Judo etc. I hope that this info helps you with your search!
    Last edited by Weedy; March 23rd, 2008 at 01:48 PM.

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    I'll go ahead and second the sentiment that the only real way to learn these sort of techniques are to actually practice them. Both do them to someone, and have them done to you, yes it is risky, and a good blood choke you feel as soon as it is applied and an armbar has to be doen slow in pracitce, but thats what tappin out is for.

    If you are set on a book, then I'm sure and military martial art type book would have that sort of stuff in them.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Krav Maga Seattle - Contact Combat - Israeli Self Defence System
    FREE 5 Day Fight Course - TRSDirect.com

    Start searching. I'm with the rest about actual physical practice. Best training I ever got was in the service. Also teaches how to respond and negate most holds made against you. I got to sit through a rape prevention/self-defense course taught for women (I knew the teacher and went with him in case you have any questions). Some of the same principles apply, but geared more toward the 'weaker' sex. Tactics.

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    Member Array Blackhawk6's Avatar
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    Check out H2H:Hand to Hand Combat by Greg Thompson. It not only encompasses the first two levels of the Modern Army Combtives program (which is very grappling-centric) but also addresses techniques to employ a folding knife or a handgun. It also covers basic stand-up techniques.

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    Senior Member Array Hivoltage's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the ideas. I ordered some stuff...books and video, plus that book by Thompson.

    I know a live class would be much better, but there is just nothing around here close by, so I figure trying to learn on my own is better than nothing. My wife is interested too so we can practice on each other
    Nothing Wrong With Shooting as Long as the Right People Get Shot.
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    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hivoltage View Post
    My wife is interested too so we can practice on each other
    IMHO......absolutely nothing good can come from that!


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    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    Trying to learn locks, traps, submissions, etc. is extremely difficult...if not impossible...to learn without live instruction. There's no way to get adequate feedback to learn how to readjust so you can apply the technique efficiently with proper technique, rather than trying to muscle it through. If you already have some experience with some techniques from previous instruction, you may be able work some new stuff from books, DVDs, etc. However, I hate to see people run the risk of 'learning' from a book or something, and then relying on those techniques and having them fail when they need to use them.

    -JT

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    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    IMHO......absolutely nothing good can come from that!

    As this is a "family" venue, I'll refrain from pointing out the obvious....


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    Senior Member Array Hivoltage's Avatar
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    We dont take kindly to being made sport of
    Nothing Wrong With Shooting as Long as the Right People Get Shot.
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  12. #11
    Member Array Mongoose's Avatar
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    First let me tell you a little about myself. I started learning Judo in the 3rd grade and studied Karate during High School. I join the ARMY at 18 and did 21 years. Over those years I earn a 5th Degree black belt in Hapkido and two other lesser black belts. I also studied JKD concepts and know how to trap and infight. I have done some boxing while in the Army and trained in Stick and Knife fighting and have taught for years. I even gave classes when I was over in that BIG Sandbox. I do not teach anymore unless someone ask me.

    After I retired from the Army I started working as a Corrections Deputy working in a jail (working on a 2nd retirement). While working in the jail I have been in my share of REAL knock um down type of fights and had a few bones broken. I was attacked once by a guy who was already severing over 70 years and he didn't have anything to lose if he killed me. He tried to kill me with his bare hands and darn near got me. I was on light duty for six months after that fight nursing my injuries.

    I say all that to say simply this; do not get caught up with learning complicated moves. When the crap hits the fan the body and mind will go back to the VERY BASICS of your training. Learning arm bars and other locks are very good. But you will 85 % of the time never do them the way you were taught. Try and do a simply arm bar on someone who is very big and have large muscular arms (body). It isn’t going to work the way you were taught or read in a book (unless you find someone who knows what the real deal is). You will get you butt handed to you very fast trying to do what you have been looking at in a book or seen on a DVD. BUT, if you UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPTS of how and why the locks and bars are used and WHY they work, then you will become a much better fighter. In other words you may have to throw your shoulder, hip, or LEG in as a means to HELP you get the lock or bar. Stuff that MOST teachers won’t teach you, because they don’t know! This is because they never have been in a real fight!

    So to answer your question you must look inside and answer these questions for me. Why do you want to learn locks and bars? Do you see yourself standing toe to toe and fighting until the end? Or do you really just want to protect yourself so that you can run away from the attack?

    As I already mention when the crap hits the fan your body and mind WILL go to its BASIC knowledge and FIGHT! If you are well grounded in fighting and have muscle memory and the skills to really fight without thinking about it then your instinct will take over and your basics and skills will see you though.

    But if your grounding basic is nothing more than watching a video or reading a book and MAYBE playing (practicing) with someone, you will fail in a REAL fight. With such limited muscle memory and little skills your body WILL GO TO ITS BASIC KNOWLEDGE. You will throw up your hands and arms and try to block the blows coming your way. You will scream and possibly fall down and panic in absolute fear! Believed me when I say that when there is someone REALLY trying to HURT you, you will FORGET 90% of what you thought you knew. It happens to me all the time, but I am well grounded in the basic knowledge of throws, Locks and bars and I do not think about what I am doing during a fight because my muscle memory takes over. But this took me years to develop and I don’t think that you want this level of achievement.

    I have some suggestions on videos or DVDs to watch if you tell me what kind of fighter you really want to be. Do you see yourself as a Toe to Toe, blow for blow type of person or is it the self-protected hit and RUN type?

    I mean no dis-respect in my post. I am only trying to help you in case you find yourself on the short end of the stick. The end with all the crap!

    I knew another Deputy who got in a fight and was stomped over and over again by a person who had already killed two people by shooting them in the head. This Deputy had his neck broken by this guy. I don’t want something like this happening to you. It is one thing to con yourself into thinking that you can really fight (I see it all the time) and another KNOWING that you stand a fighting chance.


    Mongoose

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    learned a couple of good techniques years ago from a video called (practiced with security coworkers), I think "Hand to Hand Combat for the Police Officer." They have been effective for me a couple times.
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    Member Array uakaos's Avatar
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    you can buy dvd's and read books but you will not get muscle memory that way. when in an intense situation you will revert to what you best know. so if put in a situation where you have to defend yourself you will not use anything you have seen or read.
    your best bet is to join your local combat school. been in mma for 9 years and see new faces all the time.
    even brazilian jujitsu is worth looking into.
    i pay $105 per month but have seen people pay $45/month for a 1 day a week beginers class.
    im more of an everyday guy.
    good way to boost confidence
    Last edited by uakaos; March 25th, 2008 at 12:08 PM. Reason: had price wrong
    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."

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    Senior Member Array Hivoltage's Avatar
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    OK.
    1. I do not plan on fighting to the death every other day.
    2. I do not get into fights every other day.
    3. I do not plan on beinng able to kick ass on everybody.
    4. I dont see how me wanting to read a book or watching a DVD will hurt me more than if I did nothing at all.

    Maybe I started the thread out wrong, I want to learn some self defense moves, I just picked those items and for no particular reason. Watching Cage Fighting maybe

    I appreciate all the advice and do consider it as help. Now that we know I just want to learn some self defense moves to maybe thwart off a punk or mugger, does this change the advice?

    Any and all help is appreciated.
    Nothing Wrong With Shooting as Long as the Right People Get Shot.
    Clint Eastwood, Magnum Force, 1973

  16. #15
    Member Array Mongoose's Avatar
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    You asked about learning locks and bars which are the meat and potatoes of fighting. Usually when someone asks about learning how to fight other FIGHTERS will respond. A brotherhood if you will who offer their opinions out of respect for each other. We meant no harm only help.

    The advise already given for learning Locks and bars for self defense is still advised for all the above mention reasons. BUT, if self-defense is what you want then the hit and run tactics is for you!

    Believe it or not even the guys that fight on TV in those UFC and cage matches watch DVDs! They can pick up a move here and there. Heck, I do it myself because a person don’t have the time or MONEY to travel and train.

    CLick on the below link.

    TRS Direct - Self Defense - Personal Protection - Martial Arts - Street Fighting - Spec Ops - Delta Force - SEAL Team - SWAT Cops

    Street Safe, simply and to the point! Just like Bruce would have wanted it. LOL

    Plus you could also go to the Library and pay nothing to look at arm bars and locks.


    Mongoose
    Last edited by Mongoose; March 26th, 2008 at 09:03 PM.

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