Krav Maga online

This is a discussion on Krav Maga online within the Defensive Books, Video & References forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have no idea whether these folks are any good. I *am* convinced that Krav Maga is good, and this may be useful for someone ...

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Thread: Krav Maga online

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Krav Maga online

    I have no idea whether these folks are any good. I *am* convinced that Krav Maga is good, and this may be useful for someone who has no access to am instructor (or who can't afford it). I like the idea of providing some sort of training to folks who would otherwise be unable to get it:
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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    Ive watched a few of the videos on YouTube. They seem to be pretty decent. Im no expert on this kind of stuff but it seems to be good for beginners.
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  4. #3
    Ex Member Array GreenHorn's Avatar
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    I sent the link to my wife to check out.
    She has been into Krav for about 4 years now and has a yellow belt.
    She loves the stuff they teach her at the Krav gym.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    You can't learn a martial art via video, online, or correspondence course. If you've already got extensive experience in another system (or systems), you may be able to learn something new effectively this way, but otherwise, bad idea.

    The effectiveness of any martial art is going to be determined primarily by the instructor and the learning practitioner. I've seen some KM techniques by some KM "instructors" that were downright silly and a good way to buy the farm, or a large piece of it. As much as TKD is generally derided, I know of TKD black belts who are very adept and effective street fighters.

    You can read, watch, and gyrate around in the air all you want, but until you step into the pool yourself, you can't know what it will be like and if it will work for you.

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  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    To watch this to see what is out there is OK, IMO. To watch this and then trust your life to it is not OK.

    I am building a Website for my TKD instructors and he specifically asked me to not include any videos or even the foot work diagrams as he has seen people try to "learn ahead" and it always comes out worse for them.

    You can't learn to throw someone if you don't know what it feels like to actually pick up a body. You can't learn to properly block and counter if you don't know what it is like to actually get hit in the forearm and how to react, unless you have trained to do it with a live body.

    It's kind of like Daniel Laruso learning Karate from a book on his coffee table, he still got his butt kicked. It wasn't' until Mr. Miagee showed him how to counter and strike that he won the All Valley Karate tournament.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Agree with Cthulhu.

    You have to learn by doing. A video will give you some ideas but is not a substitute for one on one work with an instructor.

    My son tried Krav for a few months (would have continued but instructor lost his lease and moved). He said the sessions were a very strenuous workout.

    He also once said, "what the * didjyah just do," after I executed a mobility throw on him and put him on the ground head first. There's no substitute for one on one to learn how others are going to react to what you are trying to execute.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    I have to agree with everyone else. Unless you already have a very good base knowledge and skills in other martial arts, you're probably not going to learn anything useful by watching videos. You may actually get yourself hurt worse.

    If you don't have something close, it may well be worth it to spend the gas money to drive an extra hour or two even if you can only afford once per week or something to a decent instructor as opposed to the mountain of medical bills you're going to get from either getting your butt kicked from trying something you think you learned from a video or for throwing your back out because you didn't learn how to properly execute a basic elbow strike...or [insert painful experience of choice here].

    Now, it may actually help to see what to expect from some of the other folks out there that you may encounter. That could be a plus. Like the whole concept of learning everything you can about your enemy. But even that is iffy without some sort of base knowledge to build on.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    Need to execute throws on folks with different builds

    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post

    Now, it may actually help to see what to expect from some of the other folks out there that you may encounter. That could be a plus. Like the whole concept of learning everything you can about your enemy. But even that is iffy without some sort of base knowledge to build on.
    Good point Pack.
    Yeah-- you need the classroom time to learn to execute stuff on people with different body builds because they react differently.

    And you need to see and experience folks doing unexpected things in response to what you are doing, which can happen safely in a class but not in the real world.

    A jailer acquaintance once attempted to execute a certain move on an unruly inmate. The con's reaction was completely different from what the jailer expected. It worked out though, he whacked him again. The con just didn't know the drill.

    There's no substitution for real live instruction and class time with others.

    And, for most of us, most of the time, hand to hand stuff is no substitute for situational awareness, knowing how to break away and how to make space, and knowing how and when to use lethal force.

    In a way, I think learning a martial art gives options, but also causes a potential difficulty for the defensive shooter. The instinctual moves are a little different. For the martial art the move is closing in to execute a punch or a throw. For the defensive shooter it is making space, getting off the x, and getting a gun on target. Different stuff.

    (I'm certainly no expert or even accomplished in any of this stuff, but that's my take on it after putting lots of time over a couple of years into "learning" a martial art. And now, I know just enough to be dangerous to myself. A video won't do it.)

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Good point Pack.
    Yeah-- you need the classroom time to learn to execute stuff on people with different body builds because they react differently.

    And you need to see and experience folks doing unexpected things in response to what you are doing, which can happen safely in a class but not in the real world.

    A jailer acquaintance once attempted to execute a certain move on an unruly inmate. The con's reaction was completely different from what the jailer expected. It worked out though, he whacked him again. The con just didn't know the drill.

    There's no substitution for real live instruction and class time with others.

    And, for most of us, most of the time, hand to hand stuff is no substitute for situational awareness, knowing how to break away and how to make space, and knowing how and when to use lethal force.

    In a way, I think learning a martial art gives options, but also causes a potential difficulty for the defensive shooter. The instinctual moves are a little different. For the martial art the move is closing in to execute a punch or a throw. For the defensive shooter it is making space, getting off the x, and getting a gun on target. Different stuff.

    (I'm certainly no expert or even accomplished in any of this stuff, but that's my take on it after putting lots of time over a couple of years into "learning" a martial art. And now, I know just enough to be dangerous to myself. A video won't do it.)
    A few of the newer/more mixed/homegrown styles seem to do a good job of blending the two.

    One of the things I can't quite figure out with all the various martial arts studios is all the darn kata work and no contact time. You've got a bajillion folks out there that have moves like bruce lee, but 1) don't know how to react outside of the strict forms they've been taught, 2) don't have a clue how to react when they've actually been hit, because quite frankly, they never have really been hit. Then you have all the old traditional styles where there are 50 different blocks and redirects for 500 diffferent situations and 9 out of 10 times they're taught how to retreat in some form or fashion(if you really study the techniques you'll pick up on it). I don't want to back away or block or redirect all my opponents shots in a knock down drag out fight. I don't want to take a chance with some big fancy block that just ends up redirecting one blow and setting myself up to take another... I want my opponent as close to me as possible so I can control him. I want to bring him in close where I can get a hold of him, chew him up, spit him out, and demolish him.

    Then there are the other outside factors that aren't usually covered in a traditional style because they're typically in what I would call a "sterile" environment. They all have the same uniforms, they have a kushy mat, no shoes, and no real contact. On the street it's a whole different ball game with street clothes, tennis shoes or boots, and asphalt. Some of those BJJ moves like triangle chokes from the ground, etc... are great on a mat or inside a building, but try it on asphalt and see how you feel about it. You're going to be thinking OUCH as the stones and glass cut and dig into your back, backside and head. This gets your concentration off your opponent and as soon as it does...BAM! You're dead.

    [Style redacted so as not to offend anyone] for instance...a simple youtube search or trip to your local dojo is enough for me to go ape. The little bit they do spar everyone is padded up like they're going into a lions cage and the strikes are love taps like they're trying to score points for how many ballerina pirouettes they can do. How on Gods green earth does anyone learn how to properly protect themselves if they don't have to worry about being hit? What happens when they get hit for real without all that padding outside of the dojo? It effectively short circuits them...and yes, I've seen it on more than one occasion and it's a sad sight to see. I don't want to see any of this love tap nonsense. If you're going to love tap what are the bomb suits for? If you really must have pads you better darn well kick hard and if you're going to kick somebody, that body better darn well move like a mule kicked it after having its behind branded.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    . And now, I know just enough to be dangerous to myself. A video won't do it.)
    Yeah I was once one of those dingalings you see on youtube that knocks themselves cold with a set of nunchucks(studied Hapkido throughout high school). First couple of weeks into training with those things were ...painful.

    I guess your best bet these days is to either find a good school that blends the best or spend the years upon years to study a bit of everything. I moved to FL right after HS for a while so I started studying different things and it just kind of progressed from there. When I got back home I tried something else for a few years, and then moved on to something else again and again. Evolution I suppose.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array pcon's Avatar
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    that's SWEET! i've been wanting to join a Krav Maga dojo. i'm going to take a look at these.
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  13. #12
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    Redirects

    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    A few of the newer/more mixed/homegrown styles seem to do a good job of blending the two.

    One of the things I can't quite figure out with all the various martial arts studios is all the darn kata work and no contact time. You've got a bajillion folks out there that have moves like bruce lee, but 1) don't know how to react outside of the strict forms they've been taught, 2) don't have a clue how to react when they've actually been hit, because quite frankly, they never have really been hit. Then you have all the old traditional styles where there are 50 different blocks and redirects for 500 diffferent situations and 9 out of 10 times they're taught how to retreat in some form or fashion(if you really study the techniques you'll pick up on it). I don't want to back away or block or redirect all my opponents shots in a knock down drag out fight. I don't want to take a chance with some big fancy block that just ends up redirecting one blow and setting myself up to take another... I want my opponent as close to me as possible so I can control him. I want to bring him in close where I can get a hold of him, chew him up, spit him out, and demolish him.
    Yes, but while getting in close is what is needed for the martial artist's approach, making some space to draw and shoot is what is needed for armed action.

    Also, while we did lots of work on ground fighting, that's not really where I'd want to be if I thought I'd need to draw to stop the fight.

    BTW, I like small circle stuff. Attack fingers, wrists, use center locks, but unless you can disarm and use their own knife on them, you have to eventually make the space to --and split second's time-- to get to your gun, draw, and fire.

    Pack wrote: "I want my opponent as close to me as possible so I can control him."

    True, if you are skilled enough and confident enough in what you know to be sure you can control your opponent. Unfortunately, you never know the skill level of your opponent. Lots of BGs are 'natural' fighters and others have had an extensive "street" learning courses in
    "Jailhouse" techniques. Only a gun will work on these folks.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
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    Didn't read all the posts but here is the deal:

    Martial Arts are something that become a tool in one's arsenal by repetition. Every type of martial arts only becomes effective after practicing it over and over and over and over and over until it is second nature in your brain. Practice coupled with expert instruction mind you.

    Now, could you watch the video and create drills and do them over and over and over and practice these drills with a friend? Sure, if you have to.
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

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    Exclamation

    Gunfighting is a martial art, too. All of the same principles of training to develop muscle memory apply.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceDoGood View Post
    Martial Arts are something that become a tool in one's arsenal by repetition. Every type of martial arts only becomes effective after practicing it over and over and over and over and over until it is second nature in your brain. Practice coupled with expert instruction mind you.

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