Pay it forward: In The Gravest Extreme, by M. Ayoob

This is a discussion on Pay it forward: In The Gravest Extreme, by M. Ayoob within the Defensive Books, Video & References forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Faitmaker Really? Reading this book could potentially offer me some legal protection with the court? Here is an example (albeit a simple ...

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Thread: Pay it forward: In The Gravest Extreme, by M. Ayoob

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faitmaker View Post
    Really? Reading this book could potentially offer me some legal protection with the court?
    Here is an example (albeit a simple one) of how Biker's advice could help...

    August 2009, you read Mas's book and mail it on. January 2010 you shoot a scumbag wielding a knife at you. You end up at trial.

    Prosecutor: "Mr. Smith here says he was only defending himself, and yet forensics clearly puts the shooting victim almost twenty feet away from him! How can that be defense???"

    Mr. Smith: "I know about the Tueller Drill, and that a knife can beat a gun out to seven yards in a situation like that."

    Prosecutor: "You are a lying, cheating, Internet commando who only read that Tueller nonsense last week in an attempt to save your own bacon!"

    Mr. Smith: "Uh, actually, I have the proof here that I read that information over a year ago in a work by a reputable lethal force expert. It was part of my working knowledge at the time I was faced with the decision to shoot. Please have a look at Exhibit 27, the photocopy of the front-piece of that book bearing my signature and proof of date of delivery and forwarding."

    The point is, in a self-defense shooting the knowledge you had at the time of the shooting is a valuable part of convincing a jury that you made a reasonable and justified decision. Proving what you knew when is important.

    And I am not worried about Mas's royalties, either. If one person who reads it signs up for an LFI course he otherwise never would have taken, I think Mas'd see that as a fair trade off.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Talking

    Anyone who keeps the book is a three-legged toad.
    pittypat21 likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array Dal1Celt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Anyone who keeps the book is a three-legged toad.
    I have it, not gonna keep it. I'm in the middle of moving.

    I'll send it out tomorrow. Promise.

    Sorry for the delay.

    **EDIT**

    I have the Stress Fire book, haven't gotten this one yet.

    Will still put the Stress Fire back in the mail to next on that list.

    Again Sorry.
    "Without fear there can be no Courage!"

  5. #34
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    It's because of Ayoob that I keep a journal of every trip I make to the range.

    I log what I shoot, what drills I perform, if any, what ammo and gun I am shooting, what holster I use and several other factors. The reason being is that any and all of your training notes are admissible in court. I also have my shooting partner initial each session. Every class I attend goes in the journal as well. I also have probably 30 training video's and DVD's. Four or five of them are Ayoob video's. Every time I review them it goes into the journal and dated. I watch Ayoob's "Judicious Use of Deadly Force" and "Physio-Psychological Aspects of Violent Encounters" at least once every 2 years since I've owned them.

    I'll admit that occasionally some events does not make it into the journal but 90% of it is documented.

    If for some reason, it isn't allowed at trial, so be it... Nothing lost. But It's my understanding training notes, verification and such is admissible. If so, I have documentation spanning almost 2 decades.

    The one video I do not document watching is Ayoob's "Cute Lawyer Tricks!" I don't think the unscrupulous lawyers need to know I've learned some of their common tricks they use to jack someone up on the witness stand and how to counter it.

    BTW... I highly recommend that video. It looks like it was filmed at a private session he gave to a small group in someone's back yard. It's only about 30 or 40 minutes but worth every minute. It's available at his website.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  6. #35
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kazzaerexys View Post
    Here is an example (albeit a simple one) of how Biker's advice could help...

    August 2009, you read Mas's book and mail it on. January 2010 you shoot a scumbag wielding a knife at you. You end up at trial.

    Mr. Smith: "I know about the Tueller Drill, and that a knife can beat a gun out to seven yards in a situation like that."

    Prosecutor: "You are a lying, cheating, Internet commando who only read that Tueller nonsense last week in an attempt to save your own bacon!"
    You know, it is actually humorous that you mention this because Bunny just mentioned a Tueller drill in another post. Not knowing what it was, I had to YouTube it, so this actually made sense. It was like two days ago that I found out.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

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  7. #36
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    I have another copy that I would be happy to add to the mix due to the apparent demand. PM me if you're interested.

  8. #37
    New Member Array anicca's Avatar
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    Please add me to the list of those interested. My local libraries don't have much.

    Thanks,
    anicca

  9. #38
    Member Array teccles's Avatar
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    please add me to the list.....

  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
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    I have a forwarded copy....

    I have psychophipps' book & it's ready to send took a while as I was out of town when the book arrived). Please PM if interested. Great read, better Forum members! Thanks for the favor psychophipps!
    Tim
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    Si vis pacem, para bellum
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  11. #40
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
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    Looks like this is still the list waiting. Just to keep it all on track.

    glocker1926
    nedrgr21
    LongRider
    TheRogue
    Dal1Celt
    Faitmaker
    Ferris
    Dec0y
    Ron
    Skot
    First Sgt
    anicca
    teccles
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

    NRA Member / Ohio Conceal Carry Instructor
    CHL Holder

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array Jackle1886's Avatar
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    Might as well get my name on there now. Thanks
    Better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Just a bump for a great act of sharing. Thanks again CCW9mm for passing this around. It's a great read. Not only does Mas share knowledge and opinions, he shares his rationale as well. IMHO, opinions aren't worth diddly w/o the latter part. The vast majority is timeless, but keep in mind that your local laws and other topics may vary from what was written 30 yrs ago in Mas's AO and technology changes. It was also interesting to hear the rationale and actual verbiage for information, as well as misinformation or lack of context, passed around the gun community. I recommend reading it twice with a critical eye towards what's written and your own personal beliefs/suppositions.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Just a bump for a great act of sharing. Thanks again CCW9mm for passing this around.
    It's 2:19 the end of a long day. Picked up mail at the PO on the way home. Got "In The gravest Extreme" passed on by Nedrgr. So I am off to bed to do some reading, typically a slow reader I will make a point of getting through this ASAP to pass onto TheRogue. Thank you CCW9mm for your generosity and consideration for your fellow citizens & board members
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Glad to see it's making the rounds.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  16. #45
    Member Array SAnta01's Avatar
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    I would enjoy a time with it also. Add my name to the list. This is a good idea, anybody have a Wilson, Rodgers or EB that they would like to continue this with? I'll volunteer to be the first recipient!

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