Kimber Safety Concern

This is a discussion on Kimber Safety Concern within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; After my last range date I was cleaning my Kimber Compact CDP II when I noticed that something caught the slide when I disassembled it. ...

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Thread: Kimber Safety Concern

  1. #1
    Member Array FrontSight's Avatar
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    Kimber Safety Concern

    After my last range date I was cleaning my Kimber Compact CDP II when I noticed that something caught the slide when I disassembled it. It took some jiggling to get it to come off the frame; same when reassembling (I never forced it). Then as I went through the safety checks after assembly, the following happened; hammer cocked, safety on, pull trigger and hold, release safety, the hammer fell! This occurred 6 of 10 attempts.

    It has been regulated to the safe until I can get by the gunsmith. Has anyone got an idea what might be going wrong with this pistol?
    Pershing SIR!!

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  3. #2
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    Unless I miss understand, you say the hammer drops w/ the trigger depressed when you move the safety to fire position? If it drops w out the trigger pressed you have a problem, if it drops w/ the trigger dpressed , I think this is normal. my 1911 does this.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    Member Array FrontSight's Avatar
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    Rocky, I beg to disagree, this is taken fron JTJersey's gunsmithing site (see #5);

    "Colt 1911 Style Pistol Info

    STANDARD SAFETY CHECK


    1. Cock the hammer (chamber and magazine empty of course).
    2. Without depressing the Grip Safety, pull the trigger. The hammer should NOT fall.
    3. Hold the gun normally, so as to depress the Grip Safety and then flick the frame mounted Safety Lever up and try to pull the trigger. The hammer should NOT fall.
    4. Without pulling the trigger, push on the back of the hammer with your finger. The hammer should NOT fall.
    5. With the hammer still cocked, flick the frame mounted safety lever down. The hammer should NOT fall.
    6. Hold the gun normally, with the frame mounted Safety Lever down, pull the trigger. The hammer SHOULD fall.
    7. If the hammer falls at any time other than at #6, your pistol is unsafe to use and in need of repair. Feel free to contact me and I'll try to help you out.
    8. For those of you with Series 80 Colt style pistols there is one more thing to check. Lock the slide back and turn the gun over. Depress the firing pin release plunger and make sure it's not sticking. I don't have much use for this particular safety device, but if it's jammed up into the slide it will defeat it's purpose of preventing the firing pin from moving unless the trigger is pulled."
    Pershing SIR!!

  5. #4
    New Member Array Himself's Avatar
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    I have a feeling that the "something" which "caught the slide" was the firing pin safety actuator. I believe the Kimber literature cautions owners against trying to remove the slide with the grip safety depressed.

    I am not real sure from your description just what is going on, but the firing pin safety may be buggered. As for the hammer falling when the trigger is depressed and all safeties are released, I believe that is what is supposed to happen.

    Perhaps I misunderstood your post.

  6. #5
    Member Array FrontSight's Avatar
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    I may be mistaken as to whether this is a true safety concern. I'm at work today (Memorial Day, heartless non-veteran boss, who is at the beach). I need to try this on my Colt 1991 and see if I can replicate this.

    Then again my mistake may be an indication of the onset of "oldtimer's disease"
    Pershing SIR!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Himself
    I have a feeling that the "something" which "caught the slide" was the firing pin safety actuator. I believe the Kimber literature cautions owners against trying to remove the slide with the grip safety depressed.

    I am not real sure from your description just what is going on, but the firing pin safety may be buggered. As for the hammer falling when the trigger is depressed and all safeties are released, I believe that is what is supposed to happen.

    Perhaps I misunderstood your post.
    Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

    On a Series II gun, or the Colt version with the firing pin block, you must be careful to make sure the grip safety is not depressed while removing the slide, lest the pin that releases the firing pin block hang up the slide.

    See Page 15 of the owner's manual.

    SERIES II MODELS
    Please follow the simple procedures below for
    disassembly of the slide.

    1. Visually inspect chamber to make sure firearm
    is unloaded.

    2. Follow standard disassembly procedures found in
    your Owners Manual, with the exception that
    special observation should be given that the
    grip safety is not to be engaged when removing
    the slide.

    If the Grip Safety is depressed while attempting to
    remove the slide, the push rod for the firing pin
    stop will be activated. Activating the Grip Safety
    will not allow the slide to be removed, if forced,
    damage could occur to the firearm, which will not
    be covered under Warranty.
    Matt

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontSight
    Rocky, I beg to disagree, this is taken fron JTJersey's gunsmithing site (see #5);

    "Colt 1911 Style Pistol Info

    STANDARD SAFETY CHECK


    1. Cock the hammer (chamber and magazine empty of course).
    2. Without depressing the Grip Safety, pull the trigger. The hammer should NOT fall.
    3. Hold the gun normally, so as to depress the Grip Safety and then flick the frame mounted Safety Lever up and try to pull the trigger. The hammer should NOT fall.
    4. Without pulling the trigger, push on the back of the hammer with your finger. The hammer should NOT fall.
    5. With the hammer still cocked, flick the frame mounted safety lever down. The hammer should NOT fall.
    6. Hold the gun normally, with the frame mounted Safety Lever down, pull the trigger. The hammer SHOULD fall.
    7. If the hammer falls at any time other than at #6, your pistol is unsafe to use and in need of repair. Feel free to contact me and I'll try to help you out.
    8. For those of you with Series 80 Colt style pistols there is one more thing to check. Lock the slide back and turn the gun over. Depress the firing pin release plunger and make sure it's not sticking. I don't have much use for this particular safety device, but if it's jammed up into the slide it will defeat it's purpose of preventing the firing pin from moving unless the trigger is pulled."
    In step 4, he tells you not to pull the trigger. I believe this is intended for step 5 as well. If you look at the diagram of the 1911 safety, it appears that if the trigger is depressed and held while the safety is moved to the 'fire' position, the hammer should fall.



    The safety is the red part - it rotates about the axis you are looking down in the picture, allowing the trigger bow to push the bottom of the sear to the left, which moves the upper end of the sear to the right, freeing the hammer to fall.

    Here is a pictorial of the safety check. Note that the trigger is not depressed when disengaging the thumb safety.

    Matt

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    Member Array Dan Burwell's Avatar
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    If you are holding the trigger back while you take the safety off the hammer SHOULD fall , if not you have a broken gun.

    If you have the safety up pull the trigger release the trigger then take the safety down the hammer should NOT fall if it does you have a broken gun.

    Basically what you are supposed to be checking for is a slight movement of the sear off the hammer hooks with the safety on (there should be zero movement). if there is enough movement when you release the safety the hammer falls, you can actually take this a step further and put the safety on pull the trigger with the beaver tail out of the gun you can visually check to see if you sear moves, if it moves at all bad things could be in your future.

    Enjoy,
    Dan

  10. #9
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    On a Series II gun, or the Colt version with the firing pin block, you must be careful to make sure the grip safety is not depressed
    Matt,

    You're not referencing the Series 80 correct?
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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    Quote Originally Posted by OD
    Matt,

    You're not referencing the Series 80 correct?
    Correct - the Series 80 firing pin safety is trigger activate, the Kimber Series II is activated by the grip safety.

    Matt

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    "Then as I went through the safety checks after assembly, the following happened; hammer cocked, safety on, pull trigger and hold, release safety, the hammer fell!
    This occurred 6 of 10 attempts."


    The hammer should fall if you do that (exactly as you have described above) but, it should do it every time...& not 6 out of 10.

    If the grip safety is not depressed but there is rearward pressure on the trigger while the grip safety is flipped off then the hammer should not fall.

    If the grip safety is depressed & there is rearward pressure on the trigger as the grip safety is flipped off then the hammer should fall.


    But, Note: neither of those actions are part of the normal function check procedure.

    Methinks you are doing your function check incorrectly.

    Matt Larson & Rocky are correct.

  13. #12
    Member Array FrontSight's Avatar
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    Gentlemen,

    I must confess that I am totally mistaken. Read the safety checklist incorrectly! I tried this on the Colt last night and the same happened. But, there is a problem with the Kimber, but not what I thought. As Dan stated above, if the hammer doesn't fall, then something is wrong. As I stated in my initial post 6 of 10 times the hammer falls, the 4 times it doesn't, that is a problem.

    So I still must take it to the 'smith. I knew that someone here would have an answer, Thanks to all who responded!
    Pershing SIR!!

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    Thumbs up FrontSight

    "the 4 times it doesn't, that is a problem."


    Yes, a trip to the smith for Mr. Kimber is still necessary.

  15. #14
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    Give Kimber a call - they should fix this for you for free.

    Matt

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