Largest caliber legaly justified for defense

This is a discussion on Largest caliber legaly justified for defense within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The .44 Special is one of the best SD rounds out there, and loaded with Buffalo Bore heavy loads, will even be effective on bear. ...

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Thread: Largest caliber legaly justified for defense

  1. #31
    Member Array alnitak's Avatar
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    The .44 Special is one of the best SD rounds out there, and loaded with Buffalo Bore heavy loads, will even be effective on bear. Get a 3" revolver for CC, and it will also work as a woods gun.

    Check out this link:
    http://www.snubnose.info/docs/44v357.htm

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  3. #32
    Member Array GregDepot's Avatar
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    I have already as posted 357 mag, 40 s&w, and 9mm. There reason for a larger magnum would be for animal defense. The 357 can handle this well enough for now but it has its limitations compared especialy to 454 casull and up. The 357 can still produce 710 for human sd and around 775 for animal defence i doubt a 10mm unless handloaded is going to be a significant improvement on this. A 41/44 should inproved on animal defence noticably but 454 on up would be more significantly. Ím not saying i need a another gun for sd against humans just rather or not there is legal ramification if i did need to use a excessive caliber in sd since laws are written for criminals. Thanks for your help.
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  4. #33
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregDepot View Post
    Largest caliber legaly justified for defense
    I have yet to see any statute dictate max caliber for carry of a defensive sidearm in public. That isn't to say such doesn't exist.

    IMO, because of the possibility of questions being raised over the choice of caliber being 'too much' force, I personally max out my choices around the level of .357mag, .357SIG, .44mag, .45LC, 5.56x45mm, 12ga shot. I wouldn't be comfortable with the mix of characteristics of weapons with larger rounds than that; nor do I think my community's DA or jury pool likely be comfortable with it. YMMV, based on the strength of biases and prejudices in your community.

    If you're looking for a legal opinion, though, I would recommend speaking with an attorney competent with the defense of self-defense cases and cases involving the justifiable use of deadly force in your state.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  5. #34
    Senior Member Array nightsonge's Avatar
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    Depends upon state, Oklahoma has a .45 caliber limit for carry under the Oklahoma Self Defense Act. Granted a larger caliber would be less effective on humans as the bullets are designed for game, but I think a .50 caliber Desert Eagle would win hands down on the intimidation front. :-)
    Ah Well, I'll stick with my Colt .45 1991-A1
    A 1911 is Not an obsession, it's simply a recognition that it's THE Gun. :-) All others are runner ups. And hey, if all else fails, aim for the nose and fling it to knock out your foe. Let's see y'all do that with a kel-Tec. ;-)

  6. #35
    Member Array Keech's Avatar
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    Well, it's hard to carry and the recoil is a --tch, but the 105 Howitzers were very popular when I was in Southeast ;-)
    All joking aside, if a .45, .357 or 9mm+P won't do the job, then you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Call for back up, or bring out your AR or Shotgun ASAP. (and then run, if you can)
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  7. #36
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightsonge View Post
    Depends upon state, Oklahoma has a .45 caliber limit for carry under the Oklahoma Self Defense Act.
    Ah. There are state limits on carry caliber. I knew of states that dictate hunting caliber, of course, but this is the first I've heard of a limit on carry caliber options.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  8. #37
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    To the OP. I carried a 6" 44mag as an LEO for a few years, here in Texas. It was carried as a car gun, in my cruiser for many years also. I qualified with it every year, using full power loads. I don't think there's anything wrong with your idea of carrying a 44mag or similar gun out in the woods or keeping it in your home or car. I think you will want to use lower power loads in your home. The blast from full power 44mag loads fired inside a building, is deafening.... believe me...
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  9. #38
    Member Array jsunsr's Avatar
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    Points to ponder:

    As mentioned before, over penetration. I've read that each bullet that comes out of your gun your are criminally and civilly responsible for. Don't forget a 44 mag. is very capable of killing someone a mile away, after penetrating several walls. If you don't get criminal charges there are civil law suits that, win or loose can bankrupt you.

    If you read some of the self defense books and magazines, I read Massod Ayoob. He says there are guys sitting in prison because they used the wrong caliber. He recommends using calibers that police use. What's wrong with 45 ACP, 40 S&W, 357 Mag. They have high percentage of one shot put downs.

    Different places have different prosecutors. Probably a Texas prosecutor wouldn't press charges on some of the cases that are filed in California, Massachusetts, Illinois. So what's good for one is not necessarily good for all.

    Final point, go to youtube and search for 'don't talk to police'. A law professor, James Duane, talks about how you should react after the smoke has cleared and police are on site. Don't forget the NY subway shooter may not have been prosecuted if he didn't say 'here have another one'. Yeah he got off with a slap on the wrist, but after years of legal battles.

    My 2 cents

  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    I regularly keep a .72 handy for SD.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Ah. There are state limits on carry caliber. I knew of states that dictate hunting caliber, of course, but this is the first I've heard of a limit on carry caliber options.
    Not in my state.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsunsr View Post
    Points to ponder:

    As mentioned before, over penetration. I've read that each bullet that comes out of your gun your are criminally and civilly responsible for. Don't forget a 44 mag. is very capable of killing someone a mile away, after penetrating several walls. If you don't get criminal charges there are civil law suits that, win or loose can bankrupt you.

    If you read some of the self defense books and magazines, I read Massod Ayoob. He says there are guys sitting in prison because they used the wrong caliber. He recommends using calibers that police use. What's wrong with 45 ACP, 40 S&W, 357 Mag. They have high percentage of one shot put downs.

    Different places have different prosecutors. Probably a Texas prosecutor wouldn't press charges on some of the cases that are filed in California, Massachusetts, Illinois. So what's good for one is not necessarily good for all.

    Final point, go to youtube and search for 'don't talk to police'. A law professor, James Duane, talks about how you should react after the smoke has cleared and police are on site. Don't forget the NY subway shooter may not have been prosecuted if he didn't say 'here have another one'. Yeah he got off with a slap on the wrist, but after years of legal battles.

    My 2 cents
    And a hit on the hand with a .45 ACP will knock a man off his feet, too.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  13. #42
    Member Array Truckinfavis's Avatar
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    So are you all telling me that I shouldn't carry my jugde 410? I have one but do not want to crucified by the jury if used on a BG.

    The "Taurus Judge ® " is so named because of the number of judges who carry it into the courtroom for their protection.

    But if i put down a BG with a expanding copper slug i can go to prison. That a nice thought.

  14. #43
    Senior Member Array tankdriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Any self defense shooting that is jusified does not depend on caliber. The problem with too much gun is overpenetration which could wound or kill an innocent bystander, in which case your real nightmare begins with civil lawsuits. Choosing a weapon is like choosing a tool, so pick the one that applies for the given chore at the time, and save yourself alot of headache. A 41-44 is more appropriate in a woods/forest setting.
    I used to think that way till a saw a real SD shooting go through the court system on TV. The guy carried a 10mm, and that was one of the main things the prosecutor keep saying over and over "it was a larger gun then the police even are allowed to carry". The jury ended up finding him guilty of manslaughter. The guy who did the shooting had never been in any trouble, the guy he shot was a know trouble maker, and had been in jail a bunch of times.

    So I can matter......sad but true.....
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  15. #44
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankdriver View Post
    I used to think that way till a saw a real SD shooting go through the court system on TV. The guy carried a 10mm, and that was one of the main things the prosecutor keep saying over and over "it was a larger gun then the police even are allowed to carry". The jury ended up finding him guilty of manslaughter. The guy who did the shooting had never been in any trouble, the guy he shot was a know trouble maker, and had been in jail a bunch of times.

    So I can matter......sad but true.....
    I am sure there was more to it than just the caliber in question. The idea that a 10mm is not carried by police is ridiculous. Here in KY, we carried a 10mm for years, so I am sure there were other circumstances involved other than caliber. Like I said before, self defense that is justified is justified if you use a Louiville slugger or a 500 s&w. But just because criminal charges are not pursued does not mean civil charges will not be forthcoming.

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array tankdriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I am sure there was more to it than just the caliber in question. The idea that a 10mm is not carried by police is ridiculous. Here in KY, we carried a 10mm for years, so I am sure there were other circumstances involved other than caliber. Like I said before, self defense that is justified is justified if you use a Louiville slugger or a 500 s&w. But just because criminal charges are not pursued does not mean civil charges will not be forthcoming.
    You are correct, there is always more to it, BUT that was one thing that was repeated over and over durning the trial, and he was talking about local police, AND when they interviewed the jury, that was one thing THEY brought up.

    I have always carried as large as possible, and the best SD round I can buy. I'm just repeating what I saw for the 1st time ever. Not saying he is correct.
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