Doing my homework - please help

This is a discussion on Doing my homework - please help within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm waiting on my nys permit to go through, and trying to narrow down what I want to test fire if I can find one ...

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Thread: Doing my homework - please help

  1. #1
    Member Array tommyp's Avatar
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    Doing my homework - please help

    I'm waiting on my nys permit to go through, and trying to narrow down what I want to test fire if I can find one to rent before I buy. A friend of mine that's a local leo let me get a feel for his issue (just handling in house - didn't go to a range), and a compact w/a mag extension. I know I need my pinky on the gun, so sub-compact is out. I just don't like the feel of it dangling.

    I put some down range w/my friends g17 - wasn't thrilled, but wasn't opposed. When the permit goes through, I was debating these 3, all in .40 cal. Want to get opinions on them - reasons why based on my research I like/don't like are noted. Wondering what others think maybe I should lean towards.

    Glock 23: Like: No external hammer, reputation, reliability.
    Don't like: No manual safety (i'm still not sold on the trigger/drop safety only), weight/balance on the 17 that I shot.

    Beretta PX4 - Like: Balance/Feel/Weight of the Beretta I shot (not sure make/model - but was full size .40), external safety, multi adjustable back straps
    Don't like: External hammer - afraid it'll get snagged on things.

    SA XD/XDM
    Like: Reputation, look, external safety, ergonomics, multi adjustable back strap
    Don't like: Grip safety

    Still need to debate an M&P.

    Out of the ones listed - I'm looking for your thoughts on the likes and dislikes I noted. There's a local range that rents - when my permit goes through I plan to shoot what I can get my hands on, but I know his selection is limited. I'm trying to narrow it down a bit before I go out and need to purchase. NYS won't let me test anything till I get my permit - so at the moment I'm looking for opinions and reviews. Thanks!

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Please check out the Glock vs. XD link below
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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    Senior Member Array Jackle1886's Avatar
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    As far as an external safety vs. not having one is concerned, don't pull the trigger and the firearm won't go off. Is this going to be a home defense weapon or a concealed carry piece? Knowing that would make a large difference in suggestions.
    Better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.

  5. #4
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    I wouldn't worry about the grip safety on the XD's. I've yet to hear of one failing. (If anyone has, link me so I can read up on it please.)

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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    You are going in the right direction. Try BEFORE you decide if at all possible.

    I have to vote for the Glock. The external safety is not needed as long as you maintain proper gun handling skills. (Read keep you finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot) Don't base the 23 on what the 17 felt like. They are two totally different creatures. I went with the 19 which is the 9mm version of the 23 and have never had a bit of regret. I trust my life in the confidence of a Glock every day and don't have a second thought.

    All three of your choices are good ones but shoot them before deciding. The best carry gun is one you can count on in accuracy, dependability and consistency.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    I wouldn't worry about the grip safety on the XD's. I've yet to hear of one failing. (If anyone has, link me so I can read up on it please.)
    Not sure if it's a fear of failing on the OPs post but I had a student last Wednesday with the XD and the grip safety was making it difficult for her to get a consistent grip. She did ok but did a bit better with a G19. We worked for about two hours getting her comfortable and she was doing well.

    I liked the XD, it a solid choice.

  8. #7
    Member Array merischino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyp View Post
    I put some down range w/my friends g17 - wasn't thrilled, but wasn't opposed.
    Ok. I happen to have just gone through this exercise myself, and what I ended up settling on was a Glock 22, the .40 caliber version of the G17 you tried.

    Glock 23: Like: No external hammer, reputation, reliability.
    Don't like: No manual safety (i'm still not sold on the trigger/drop safety only), weight/balance on the 17 that I shot.
    I like the Glock 23. A Lot. You mentioned you didn't like the subcompact because the pinky hangs off. The pinky likely also hangs off of the 23, although a tiny bit less so. Personally, I didn't like how my pinky hung of the G23 as well, so I went with the full size.

    I happen to also still be waiting for my permit, so I haven't begun actually carrying and cannot speak to most carry related issues. That said, I have read a lot about folks preferring the compact and subcompact because they print less.

    I went back and rented a G26 the other day after having about 800 rounds through my 22, and it cemented for me just how very much I do not prefer having my pinky hang off. So whatever printing problems I may have, I think I'm 100% happy having gone full size.

    I have read the seemingly conflicting statements that: 1) you should buy the biggest caliber gun you can handle 2) the smaller the gun the bigger the recoil and 3) a mousegun you wear daily is better than a big caliber sitting at home. and 4) You do not carry a gun for comfort. What all these mean to me is, your first gun will likely not be your ideal or favorite daily carry gun in the long run. How I decided was to choose the gun I could shoot comfortably that felt right in my hand and that I could both afford and count on for trade-ability if it turned out not to be the best choice.

    Back to your concerns: "Glock has no manual safety". If you really love the Glock and this is your main stumbling block, know that you can buy an aftermarket manual safety that you can put on your Glock. I think it runs about $65. But, if you a) have no children who will be around the gun and b) plan to wear a holster that will completely cover the trigger, this really should not be an issue for you. If your reason for wanting a safety is that extra second needed to regain control of your gun after a BG steals it from you, I'd say go ahead and buy the manual safety and put it on your gun of choice, rather than choose a gun based solely on it's having a manual safety.

    As far as not being sold on the safeties that are included on the Glock, there are a ton, I mean virtual lifetimes worth of videos available on YouTube and other sources of good gun-carrying everyday folks (as well as folks making their living doing gun-related YouTube videos) doing Glock Torture tests on their everyday carry guns. One guy, Floatingaxehead, has an excellent Glock Trigger Safety torture test video where he proves that the trigger won't just "go off" by dragging his new Glock down a rocky dirt road tied to his truck by the trigger. If you don't believe the trigger safety works now, I believe you will after watching that video.

    YouTube - Glock Trigger Torture test

    Not to be left unsaid, there are 3 not 2 safeties on a Glock. You did not mention the transfer bar safety. Once you have a good understanding and can field strip your Glock you will realize that any single one of the 3 safeties will keep the Glock from firing accidentally. Dropping -- won't/can't fire. Dragged behind a truck -- won't/can't fire. Dropped out of an airplane at 500 feet -- won't/can't fire. The manual safety is only going to add one single level of security to the gun, which is preventing the intentional firing of the Glock, which the Glock has not already covered.

    As I said above, if you are interested in preventing the intentional firing of the Glock, you have options you can add. 1 is the aftermarket manual safety. The other is a Safe-T-Blok, about $13.00 worth of small plastic that fits behind the trigger. If you know it's there, you just poke it out before firing. If you don't know it's there, it will take you some time to examine and learn and figure out how to remove it -- good in the event someone takes your gun away from you.
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  9. #8
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    I own both a Glock 23 and a XD in 9mm. They are both great pistols, and I would not have any problem trusting my life to either of them. The only problem I have had with my XD was using aftermarket cheap mags in it, I ended up ordering some factory mags, and have not had any problems with it at all. I do carry my G23 as my mostly EDC weapon as I do like the tigger on the Glock better then I do on the XD. The XD seams to have a little give to me after trying to shoot them both. They are both great guns, and you will not go wrong with either, just get your hands on both of them and put some rounds down range.
    "Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!" - Marvin the Martian

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  10. #9
    Member Array tommyp's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies..keep em coming. To answer some questions:

    The whole keep your finger off ... safety thing. I'm well versed on safety. Know past your target, keep your finger off till ready to shoot, only point at what you wanna kill, etc etc. I'm just not sure I'm 100% on the idea. I do like the drop safety in the glocks, but I'm just not sold on the trigger safety. Accidents can happen no matter how safe you are..don't want it to be me. I do plan on a quality holster..I'm just thinking what if it slips, what if my finger slips, etc. W/a safety, with practice it's no effort to flick it off, and you (I) have added piece of mine. I have no kids to worry about. Then again, I could carry w/out one in the chamber, but I'd prefer to carry one racked and ready.

    As far as EDC/Home - the answer is yes. I wanna carry, but it'll be the home defense until I can afford another full size pistol as well. That said, time permitting i'll be headed for my 12 ga before I reach for the pistol. It's only for getting me to the 12, maybe walking through the house if something goes bump, and for my girl to hang onto while I venture out w/the 12 ga. Primary focus is carry/range practice.

    Grip safety - i read about the guy who had to use his (can't recall what it was)...and his hand got injured, and the grip safety caused a problem - which made me second guess that aspect. Plus, I'm not sure how comfortable it'll be, and unfortunately until I get my permit I can't even pick one up in nys. I do like the weight/balance of the beretta that I shot a lot.

    Pinky wise- my friends with a mag w/the extension seemed to have enough room. Any of them, will preferably be a compact with a mag w/the extra grip on the bottom. If my pinky falls off, it's an automatic out. I won't like shooting it, and probably wouldn't carry it then, hence, it's pointless. Full size or compact w/an extension.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Ok, I don't understand. Some of them you don't like because they don't have a safety and some you don't like because they have a safety.

    What is your history regarding firearms? What are you comfortable with? If you don't have any history with handling firearms, everything you learn will be new and it really won't matter what you get comfortable with.

    If you don't want to have to think about much in a crisis situation, I say go with something that you can point and pull the trigger on without having to realize, oops I forgot to take it off safety.

    Any of those guns that you mentioned will work, you just have to figure out what you like or will be able to learn to use. If your going to carry every day, you also need to think about how you dress and where your going to carry. That will make a big difference in what you choose.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  12. #11
    Member Array tommyp's Avatar
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    Farron - I'm more comfortable w/the manual safety. I'm not sold on only the trigger safety, or the grip safety. However, I do like the idea of the drop safety on the Glocks. Sorry if my prior posts are confusing.

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    tommyp,

    Have you considered the SigSauer line of pistols? They make metal and polymer framed guns, and none have grip or trigger safeties. (I hate both as well). They have 4 internal safeties, including a drop safety and firing pin block. Some also have a de-cocker, and there are several types of triggers/actions to choose from including DAO (double action only), DA/SA (double action/single action), DAK (double action Kellerman), and SRT (short reset trigger).

    Sig is also well known for it's quality and reliability. The ergonomics are (IMO) second to none.

    Check them out at SIG SAUER

    Sigmanluke
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  14. #13
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Just be aware that the safety on the Beretta works the opposite way that many safeties work. It requires an upward motion to disengage it. Many safeties have followed the orginal 1911 safety pattern with a downward sweeping motion of the thumb to disengage. For me and many other shooters this downward sweeping motion is much more natural, or maybe it is because that is what we learned with.

    All of my autos that are carried with the safety on have a downward sweep to disengage them. I don't have to think about what gun I am carrying, they all work the same.

    How do you dress daily, and or how do you plan on carrying? In a holster on your side? Do you have to wear tucked in shirts or can you wear untucked clothes to cover the gun?
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Don't know anything about Beretta. To me, the XD looks even chunkier than a Glock.

    One Plus for the G23 that you may not have considered (or may not care about) is that you can buy a conversion barrel ($99+) and shoot .357 Sig with no other changes, or you can get a 9mm conversion barrel and a 9mm mag (G19?) and shoot that. It's an option that's easily available.
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  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    None of your options are bad choices. I liked the XD best of those three and that is the platform I carry. I personally think that a lot of the decision boils down to the shooting stance you prefer. If you shoot Isosceles you will like Glock; if you shoot Weaver most prefer XD. So go shoot both a bunch.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
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