Help me select a EDC
I just got my LTC in MA (had it in NY before I moved). In NY, I could not CC, but in MA I can. So, I am looking for a EDC weapon that is easy to conceal, and is a gun that maybe my wife could carry if/when I get tired of it/outgrow it/want a change of pace/etc, and she wants to (I'm working on that now). This limits me to 'compact' pistols.
While I usually wouldn't ask advice on a forum, particularly about a firearm, I'd like a bit of help/direction in consideration of these firearms from the more knowledgeable people on the forum. Maybe not 'which one I should buy' advice (although that would be appreciated), but more along the lines of 'have you thought about this feature that the glock has' advice.
Some factors for consideration, being from MA, concealment is the #1 hugest factor (soccer moms galore around here - all of which seem to think firearms jump out and start shooting people all on their own). Also, I have to buy a MA-compliant weapon, or a pre-1998 weapon (see below). It has to be compact, but he rest are nice added benefits.
So, following everyones advice I went to the range, shelled out some money, and rented 4 firearms: Sig P239 (.40), G27, S&W M&P 40c and the PPS (9mm).
I decided that I don't like the DA/SA of the Sig, or other revolvers. Although the gun was just marvelous to shoot, I couldn't hit anything with it in DA mode (I anticipate the visual hammer drop, I think - i can't shoot revolvers for the same reason), but single action was OK. I have shot 1911s before, and I like the SAO, but for some reason the DA I'm not a fan of.
Between the G27, the M&P and the PPS, I was mixed:
The M&P fit my hand probably the best (it reminded me of a small 1911 for some reason - not sure why), but it is the largest and the heaviest of the remaining 3. I shot it pretty well, and some practice will make it that much more accurate. The trigger was a bit eh, compared to the other two, but there are options to make that better, so this isn't a huge factor. This is the best value of the group, for sure, costing right around $500 new (and then the rebate/free mag). Also, I can get a FS .40 for mag-sharing, and that sort of thing. The only thing I was concerned with was the relative largeness of the firearm (it was the biggest one), and therefore the relative difficulty of hiding it properly.
The G27, being a glock, was reliable, but felt a bit like a brick. I love simplicity, and the glock is definately that, so it strongly appealed to me on that front. It would have to be a pre-1998 sale (with horrendous mark up in MA), so a factory-refurbished G27 was right around $700 with 2 mags & factory box. This galled me a bit knowing that it would have to be used. After seeing the prices, the only reason this stayed in the list was how well I shot it, and how easy it is to conceal, and how simple it is. Obviously, the mark-up from the dealer is a bit horrendous. I might be able to find a G27 out of state, and have it shipped to my local dealer, but that will take time and energy that might not be worth it (or maybe it is, who knows). Either way, it has to be pre-1998. If I could own this gun new for the price everyone else is paying, I would have bought it. But the extra $200 (for a used gun - even refurbished), is a tough pill to swallow.
The Walther was super smooth, very easy to shoot, very nice looking, but only the 9mm is available in MA (I was strongly advised by my Sheriff brother-in-law to stick to .40 or higher, and I highly value his opinion, considering his knowledge and history). It is probably the easiest to conceal, but also has some break-in issues, and carries the least amount of ammo. I shot this initially the best of the group, but I am unsure about the mag-drop being along the trigger guard. Options/mags are expensive as well. Most likely, if this were a .40, I'd probably have bought it and worked out the kinks with practice on the range. I think the price was $625 +/-, new, but only comes with 1 7-round mag (so think $700 with 2 mags +/-).
Does anyone on here have any advice/knowledge/criticism of any of the guns I've listed on here that I haven't mentioned or seemed to consider. As far as firing the weapon, I'm sure they would all do well (after proper break in), but I can't afford all three...
Thanks, in advance, for any help you can offer.
Sounds like you have done a good bit of research. My personal suggestion out of the guns you mentioned would be the g27. As far as the price goes you can have one shipped in from buds gun store and pay a LOT less then 700.00 The main reason I say go with the 27 is because -
- Its smaller then the M&P while retaining good capacity and the .40 cartridge you want
- It's reliable as the tides
-You can buy mags on line cheaply
-It's not as small and flat as the PPS but it carries more ammo and is a bigger cartridge.
Overall I think the G27 Is your best choice. Buy a cross breed super tuck holster and it will dissapear. With the right holster you wont even notice the extra size. It also would be a fantastic gun for your wife if you ever get sick of it like stated.
Edit - You may also consider a Kahr PM40/CW40. It's flat (single stack) like the PPS but it's a .40. Less capacity obvisouly but you don't get something for nothing as they say.
I'll echo Rollo, same reasons. I have one and it conceals very well, plus extremely light. Another benefit is the ability to swap it out to a 9mm for little money if your wife would like a little less recoil.
As to the hammer fixation on a revolver, if it's just that, try a concealed hammer snubbie. And last, I assume your wife knows guns and will have no problem with racking the slide on a semi auto and clearing jams, etc.?
There is a thread in this forum where MP40c, G27 and XD are discussed/compared, just FYI.
Food for though: while it's easier to see the problems you experience when firing in DA mode, all of those same issues generally occur in SA mode as well. They just occur faster, are less noticeable and easier to ignore. In all liklihood, they still need to be addressed.
I was leaning towards the G27 myself (if the prices were normal), but a new Glock is non-MA-compliant, and therefore not an option. The only way to get one in MA (legally) is to get a used, Pre-1998 weapon (or to be a police officer, but that doesn't apply here). This means that I have to buy, sight unseen, a G27 from online, or pay the $700. See the issue?
I'll contact Buds and see what I can work out with him. I'm leary about buying anything used online unless it's 100% factory refurbed and guaranteed.
My shooting is... developing. I grew up shooting bolt-action rifle (which I know is 100% different than pistol), and for some reason I get distracted by the 'moving' hammer, especially if it's not my point of focus. It's a bit better with a 'hammerless' .38, but it still happens. I find that my trigger pull isn't as smooth (it's starts/stops/starts when the hammer moves for the first time...very strange) as it should be when the hammer comes back. Obviously, with the hammer only dropping (or not-visible), it's smoother and seems to be non-existant, but it's something that I'm more comfortable working on (hopefully that makes sense).
As far as my wife, she has her CC permit, but is currently pregnant and won't even get near a firearm for fear of lead poisoning (don't even bother discussing this with her, I appreciate her concern for the child, and, as she is the only doctor in the family, I gladly argree with her). Obviously it will take some practice, and if she doesn't want to carry a semi, I'll gladly get her a .38 snub-nose, and keep what I end up buying. I just would like for her to have the option of carrying it if she wanted to.
You can not go wrong with a Glock and I am saying that even though I am not fond of them. I would go with the M&P making sure it was ordered WITHOUT the magazine disconnect.
One firearm not mentioned is the FNH in .40 for about $500. A really nice shooting easy to operate handgun.
is that gen 1? wow! not much option up there in MA. amazing how united the states are on gun issues.
The pre-1998 is before the assault weapons ban, or something like that. I don't really know all of the details, but I do know that you can get them, but they are a bit expensive.
Of those you mentioned, my pick would be Glock, then M&P, with the PPS coming in a very distant third.
Either the Glock or the M&P will serve you well. I put the Glock in first place due to their track-record for reliability, the ease of maintenance and repair, and the widespread availability of parts. The M&P's are, however, very nice and from all I've heard, they function very well. On the couple of occasions that I've shot one, I was favorably impressed.
Don't get hung up on caliber...there's nothing inadequate about the 9mm.
The Sig P239 has other trigger options besides the DA/SA. You can get it with a DAO, DAK (Double Action Kellerman) or the SRT (Short Reset Trigger). You said yourself that "the gun was just marvelous". Try it with a different trigger, maybe it's the perfect match for you.
Get the Glock, I don't know about Mass compliant but you can find alot on Gunsamerica.com
Next Id say try a smalller 1911, like Colt commander or other models in that line. Dont count out all revolvers untill you look at, and if you can, shoot a Ruger GP100, Im not a big revolver fan but I do like the GP100
I'm curious what that Ma. law is. What happened up there in 1998?
The Glock and M&P are both fine choices. Both will require some sort of holster carry; belt, IWB, ankle or shoulder. I have more problems with holster selection than gun selection BTW. The ubiquitous J-Frame S&W Revolver is pocket small, idiot-proof simple and utterly reliable. If you really want to go small, try a Ruger LCP. These two , S&W 340 and Ruger LCP, are my winter/summer combo and I carry both in Blackhawk nylon pocket holsters. The wife, my mom and mother-in-law all have LCP's now.
Yes, I have a full sized M&P 45, Colt Gold Cup, Glock 23, Sig 2022, Beretta 92, Browning Hi-Power too, guess which ones actually get to leave the house with me? That's because the small guns are so much easier to carry and easier to conceal. Bottom Line for civilian EDC!
I wish I knew, but I was in NY at the time. Basically, at that time I think they developed what is called MA-compliant weapons. That means there are certain restrictions (like a 10lb trigger pull, visual loaded chamber indicator, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...).
Originally Posted by boatail
It's a bunch of hogwash, and a way to eliminate manufacturers from selling guns in the state from what I can tell. The rules are obtuse and generally foggy enough to allow a politician to say 'aye' or 'nay' on a gun by gun basis, without having to put any actual rules down on paper. This process, of course, costs tons of money for the manufacturer to go through.