How much of a weight difference is significant? - Page 2

How much of a weight difference is significant?

This is a discussion on How much of a weight difference is significant? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by targus Wow, tokerblue. I'm sorry (and, frankly, a bit "hmmm") that you find a tiny PM9 "too heavy" to pocket carry as ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array tokerblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by targus View Post
    Wow, tokerblue. I'm sorry (and, frankly, a bit "hmmm") that you find a tiny PM9 "too heavy" to pocket carry as I'd believe "thickness/size" before "weight". Seriously, how much heaver really is a 6+1 PM9 over a 6+1 P380? P380 loaded is a hair over 12 oz and the PM9 is a hair under 16 oz, loaded as well. Less than four ounces in weight difference overall...loaded.
    - It's more than 4oz. The PM9 is about 20oz. loaded and the P380 is about 13oz. loaded. To me, that 7oz. difference keeps my pockets from swinging when I walk. I also try to limit what I am carrying around since I carry too much already. Phone, extra magazine, keys, Emerson CQC-10, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by targus View Post
    Are y'all that weak up in CT now? Just kidding. I lived for years over near Waterbury...and absolutely hated it. LOL
    - I do work in an office all day. I'm not used to manual labor.


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by targus View Post
    Paymeister, why are none of the subcompact Glocks on your list?
    I suggesting for her consideration only small, lighter, single-stack options as her style of dress suggests carrying tuckable, SmartCarry, thigh (concealment) or ankle holster. She's very slender so IWB gives her a substantially more asymmetrical appearance than it would of someone of larger girth (I can IWB a howitzer). She's also not keen on untucked cover garments, sweatshirts, vests, sweaters, or belts (sigh).

    My guess is that she'll come around eventually, but as noted above a weapon WITH you beats a better one at home. On that basis I've made my peace with her carrying an LCP if that's all that will work with her current wardrobe choices. I'll suppose I had best budget for a larger pistol for her 22nd birthday...
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  3. #18
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    Random examples of different handgun sizes and one opinion of how they could be categorized.

    Large handguns

    Semi-autos
    Desert Eagle
    Auto Mag
    Wildey

    Revolvers
    Colt: New Service, Anaconda
    Ruger: Red Hawk
    Smith & Wesson: N-Frame


    Medium Handguns

    Semi-autos
    Colt: 1911
    Glock: 17, 21, 22,
    Hi-Power
    SIG P220

    Revolvers
    Colt: Official Police, Lawman, Python (4-inch or less)
    Ruger: Security Six, GP 100 (4-inch or less)
    Smith & Wesson: K-frame and L-Frame revolvers (4-inch or less)


    Small Handguns

    Semi-Autos
    Any type of vest pocket .22 or .25
    Kahr PM9
    Kel Tec P3AT
    Ruger LCP
    SIG P238

    Revolvers
    Colt: Detective Special, Cobra, Agent
    Ruger: SP 101, LCR
    Smith & Wesson: J-Frames


    Weights

    Large: over 40 oz.
    Medium: under 40 oz.
    Small: under 20 oz.

  4. #19
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    Weight question question

    Quote Originally Posted by Paymeister View Post
    And that's what I wanted to hear: tokerblue thinks 4 ounces is significant, targus does not.
    There is another angle to the weight question. You need to ask not only how much weight difference does it take to make one more comfortable to carry, but also ask how much difference the difference in weight makes on perceived or actual recoil.

    Lets take 9 mm 115 gr or any other given ammo. What weight difference in the gun makes a real difference in felt recoil--assuming same barrel length?

    Asked another way, would a P3AT be significantly easier to handle if it had the same outside dimensions but was leaded and weighed 6 ounces more?

  5. #20
    Ex Member Array targus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    How many of our soldiers do you think have complained about the weight of their weapon? (my small attempt at putting things into perspective)
    Trust me... PLENTY of military members, and not just soldiers, complain about the weight of their gear, to include their weapons. The difference is they don't have a choice of their ISSUE gear. We don't have that limitation so, in a very real way, our choices are more complicated and varied because we have to make and adapt them to ourselves/life situations.

  6. #21
    Ex Member Array targus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokerblue View Post
    - It's more than 4oz. The PM9 is about 20oz. loaded and the P380 is about 13oz. loaded.
    According to the Kahr website, the PM9 loaded is 15.9 oz and the P380 is 12.1 oz loaded, so less than 4 oz difference.

    Of course, that may vary a "skosh" depending on the grain weights of the bullets in associated ammo types, but that's so small as to be considered negligible.

  7. #22
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    As subjective as your question is, so are the responses you’re likely to receive, and so here is mine.

    For me, every ounce counts but is secondary to my preferred carry piece. I have even changed my ammo from 135 to 110 on occasion. Yes, it all adds up. Some of the high capacity auto-loaders today can easily weight you down enough to make them counter-productive for conceal carry. My personal baseline is 23 ounces plus ammo. I'll seldom carry extra ammo unless I'm really in the mood.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
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  8. #23
    Ex Member Array targus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saber View Post
    I have even changed my ammo from 135 to 110 on occasion.
    It really makes that much of a difference to you? Seriously?

    Some of the high capacity auto-loaders today can easily weight you down enough to make them counter-productive for conceal carry.
    Yet the Glock 19 with 16 rounds on board is routinely praised as the absolute best combination of size, light weight and capacity in 9mm.

    I'll seldom carry extra ammo unless I'm really in the mood.
    Hope you never have a magazine related failure with that one mag you're carrying at the time...

  9. #24
    Member Array remington79's Avatar
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    Using the same make and brand holster for an XD 45 Compact and a G30 I can tell a difference in weight between 6-10 hours definately after 8 hours. The XD is 6 ounces heavier and it's noticable. Even with my good gun belt cinched tight after awhile it will start to twist my pants. The Glock doesn't do this and I find it is also easier to conceal.

  10. #25
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Weight is very subjective, and varies from person to person.
    I am a petite woman(5'4", 125 lbs.) and my carry gun can be any of the following, Smith & Wesson steel J-frame(19oz), Smith & Wesson steel K-frame(23 oz), Smith & Wesson steel L-frame(37oz), Smith & Wesson steel N-frame(41 oz) or a Kimber 45ACP(28 oz).
    I find myself reaching for the K-frame or the L-frame 90% of the time, as the weight is not uncomfortable to me and I feel I shoot them well.
    Anything I carry is carried OWB with a good belt. I can't stress the good belt thing enough, if the belt holds the firearm close to your side, it not only conceals better, it carries better as well. Over the past couple months I've trimmed down a bit from being more active and I've been able to tighten the belt one notch and I've noticed I actually feel less of the weight from the guns being held tighter to my hip.
    To prove the point of weight being subjective from person to person, hubby decided to try carrying my K-frame this weekend to see how he liked it. We both have identical Binachi belts(no difference there) and I loaned him the gun and my Simply Rugged pancake holster. The test lasted a whole hour, he decided it was just too heavy for him and switched back to his Glock 19, meanwhile I carried the L-frame for 14 hours and wasn't bothered by it at all.
    When it comes to what I will carry, my main criteria is the gun itself, it has to go bang everytime, and all of mine do. It also must be accurate in my hand, my revolvers always win over the Kimber. Third criteria, I must be able to hide it and well. Dressed as I usually am in jeans and a T-shirt or sweatshirt, they all hide well enough, though the N-frame is a bit harder to hide, the longer frame rides a bit higher that I like, but a different holster could resolve that issue.
    Everybody is different, thus so many choices in firearms and holsters, I'm just really different from most ladies my size.
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array camsdaddy's Avatar
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    You mentioned IWB and also Smartcarry. I know for me height plays as big of a role as anything. I carry a Glock 26 in a Smartcarry holster everyday. I find the 26 easier to carry than my single stack S&W 3913 TSW which is lighter and thinner. My issue is height which may have to do with my size I dont know. I just think when you go to these forms of carry height is more important or as equally important as weight. Also find the 26 shortness easier to conceal IWB because the butt and the sights dont print due to the reduced height.

  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    With a decent holster and a decent belt, I find weight to not be a significant factor. Slimness and sharp edges are.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paymeister View Post
    At what point should one consider a difference in weight to be significant for 'carryability'?

    I have been following the 'smallest 9mm' thread with great interest on behalf of my tiny daughter who will soon be carrying. I've also been poking around looking at small 45s. Her ability to conceal the weapon is paramount, so I'm thinking single stack and am comparing dimensions (I think .25" is significant; I do not think .015 is significant, for instance) and weight (here's where I need help).

    For those of you who have the experience with multiple weapons for concealed carry: at what point would YOU say, "Heck, that's about the same weight" versus "Well, that one there's significantly heavier"?

    Probably recommendations for specific weapons should be posted on the "smallest 9mm" thread since others will be more likely to see them there (or post in both places), but I would love your thoughts on how heavy is 'heavier'.

    Note that my short list for her consideration at this point includes the tiniest of 45s, Kahr CW9, Taurus Slim, KelTec PF9, Ruger LCP, KelTec P3AT, and Diamondback 380, with my leanings being towards the CW9. It will be her decision, of course: I'm just getting a list of what I want her to be sure to try on.
    Questions: How does your daughter feel about all this?

    Is she pro gun on her own or doing it to please you?

    Has she shot any of the guns that you listed for her?

    Comment: Being the father of 5 grown children I have learned not think for them, but to encourage and offer help when ask.

    Wife and daughter and three daughter in laws have all picked their own hand guns and are very happy with, they are not the firearms I would have necessary picked but I am not the one carrying them or shooting them.
    NOT LIVING IN FEAR, JUST READY!!!
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    nor the arrow for its swiftness,
    nor the warrior for his glory.
    I love only that which they defend.
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  14. #29
    Member Array utf59's Avatar
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    I had the chance recently to fondle and fire a Sig P238. It was amazing! Very light, minimal recoil (especially for the weight), crisp single-action trigger, good sights, very accurate, and even though it is small, it didn't feel like it disappeared in my hand, which is so often the case with a "mouse gun."

    Let her pick up one of those, and a Walther PPS as well.
    "An armed society is a polite society." -- Robert A. Heinlein

  15. #30
    Member Array jsunsr's Avatar
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    To me all carry guns are compromises. If I had to fight using a handgun, I'd probably want a 20 round 44 magnum. That's not going to happen, so I try to balance the factors.

    In my mind; weight, concealability, power (caliber and number of rounds), and shootability (my shootability with the gun.). And of course, reliability is ultimate.

    As some have alluded, when in summer wear, certainly weight and concealability will be on top of list. In winter wear, power. In all cases, how well can I shoot the gun.

    It may take considerable research and shopping to find one gun. I have several.

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