Kahr PM9 Price Thoughts

This is a discussion on Kahr PM9 Price Thoughts within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; well i never pocket carry,but if you MUST pocket carry then go right ahead.....i did say that i like their pistols,specifically the all steel models. ...

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Thread: Kahr PM9 Price Thoughts

  1. #31
    Member Array Klash545's Avatar
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    well i never pocket carry,but if you MUST pocket carry then go right ahead.....i did say that i like their pistols,specifically the all steel models. i dont like the lacking capacity though,i think if i was going for single stack i'd just carry a used sig239 or a good,cheap and reliable $250 makarov instead of paying through the nose. i've shot maks enough to trust them.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array tokerblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klash545 View Post
    well i never pocket carry,but if you MUST pocket carry then go right ahead.....i did say that i like their pistols,specifically the all steel models.
    - Their all steel model guns definitely have a better reputation than their polymer guns. I don't think anyone can disagree with you here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klash545 View Post
    i dont like the lacking capacity though,i think if i was going for single stack i'd just carry a used sig239 or a good,cheap and reliable $250 makarov instead of paying through the nose. i've shot maks enough to trust them.
    - The problem with the Sig P239 is that it is much larger than the PM9 and almost twice the weight. If you really need more capacity, you can simply use the extended magazine and you'll have 7 rounds with the PM9 vs. the 8 rounds in the P239. I've never shot a Makarov, but it's bigger and heavier than the PM9 and it is a 9x18mm round...

  4. #33
    Ex Member Array targus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klash545 View Post
    i think if i was going for single stack i'd just carry a used sig239 or a good,cheap and reliable $250 makarov instead of paying through the nose. i've shot maks enough to trust them.
    Because the size and weight of those is sooo comparable to a PM9, right?

    Good luck finding 9 x 18 for that Mak at Walmart... I'm scoring 50 round boxes of excellent Federal 9mm FMJ for $9.47 each and pick several up every time I'm at Wallyworld for all the other crap we "need" every week.

  5. #34
    Member Array Captain Kahr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Sure, Kahrs are purpose-built for CCW.

    But everything said above is a fact.

    • In comparison to many other examples, both are relatively overpriced. Check the market's offerings with "purpose-built" defensive carry pistols of relatively high concealability.
    • 6rd and 7rd capacity isn't very high. There are, indeed, other choices with considerably higher capacity, in this category.
    • Reliability is an earned thing. Any mechanical device designed and built by humans can fail. But reputations for reliability come from their performance over time. Kahr is earning its rep through the K9, P9, CW9. Those tend to be highly reliable. But as with many other sub-compact and micro-compact makers on the market (witness nearly any 3" bbl 1911 mfr out there), reliability's tough when you shrink the gun. It's also earning rep via the PM's.
    • QC is hit or miss. Many examples of both PM9's and P380's that I have seen and handled vary quite considerably in terms of the amount of roughness, tool marks and other imperfections visible from gun to gun. (And that's not on just a couple examples.) In terms of reliability, it's either design flaws or QC failing to eliminate or catch fitting/tuning errors. Call it QC, since that should catch even design flaws that would cause double-digit failures in operation.
    • Though it's a judgment call, it's easy to argue that money is better spent on a device known for high reliability. If it does work better, that's money better spent.


    In my experience with two of three Kahrs I have owned, the minis (PM9 and P380) have been flawed. The above issues were facts, on these two. Many other people have reported the same thing, despite many folks who report "flawless" behavior on the PM's. It is what it is.

    To be fair, I have a Kahr CW9 and love it. It's reliable, accurate, capable of handling any rounds I feed it. Of the few K9 and P9 pistols I know of in the hands of friends, they've all performed extremely well. Of the few PM9's I know of personally, good percentage of them are less than reliable.

    Now, it's fine to call something "purpose-built," but if that's the case then there should be more care in the design and QC in order to ensure that a tough package is good enough to pass muster. I mean, we're speaking of relying upon a life-saving device at a moment that comes down to life and death. If a defensive pistol cannot be relied upon for defensive use, then what's its use?

    I'm all for working through the problems on the P380. Did on the PM9, but I'd lost confidence before all was said and done. We'll see how this P380 goes. I hope Kahr can find the music, 'cause the P380 I have isn't worthy (yet) as a defensive tool.

    In the sense you probably mean by the phrase "purpose-built," I'm also all for giving Kahr the opportunity to prove itself. Which is why I sent the PM9 back and saw what they could do, and why the P380's back in their hands. Reality is, my STI Shadow is back at STI for flawed cycling, and that's with a firm with a heavy reputation for reliability and durability earned over the better part of two decades of hard IPDC/IDPA competitive use. More than anything, I hope these "purpose-built" carry machines can come through. It's a matter of life or death that they work, if they're to be with me when it matters.
    This door swings both ways... I own several Kahrs and have only had one that gave me trouble. Upon calling Kahr they had FedEx at my door the next day and the gun back in my hands in eight days. I did have to send it back twice but they got on it and fixed it. Their CS is outstanding to say the least.

    What more could you ask from a company that produces this type of concealment gun? The bottom line is that you need to have confidence in what you carry. If Kahr has lost your confidence then sell you gun/guns and move on.

    I for one will continue to drive a Kahr where ever I go. For now a P45 but soon my choices will include a P9 or CW9...Thanks too WoodLark here on the board.
    "Get out of my dreams and into my Kahr"

    http://designlinetx.com/

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kahr View Post
    This door swings both ways...
    Yup. The lesson: every gun within a model from a maker is distinct, in its own right.


    Their CS is outstanding to say the least. What more could you ask from a company that produces this type of concealment gun?
    Correction of the problem in the production line, prior to selling it.

    If these were bird feeders or toilet seats, a company has every right to make the buggers as cheaply as they know how.

    But these are defensive life-saving tools we're speaking of. Firearms, which people are relying upon for their very lives. Frankly, a little more attention to getting it perfectly right is justified.

    "Purpose-built" is the term others have used, implying there is no other purpose to these than protecting life. My God, what higher purpose is there than ensuring absolute perfection in a design, fitting and tuning in a product of this nature? Medical Device companies do this, for the exact same reason. Firearms makers, though, are held to the same standards, essentially, as makers of toilet seats and bird feeders (CW9 in mind, here). That's all I'm sayin'.

    What more do I expect out of any company once a problem is found, than what Kahr shows? Not much else can be expected. Kahr absolutely gets top marks for being on the ball and doing everything they can after problems are found. Because of that, I keep trying.

    My CW9 is stellar, for reliability and accuracy. I love it. The K9 I tried a decade ago was the best I'd found to-date, as well. They make good firearms, no argument there. It's simply not evident that Kahr pays any greater attention to detail on their "purpose-built" or premier concealment guns than they do with their least pistols. That's the only problem I have with it, as a protocol.


    I for one will continue to drive a Kahr where ever I go.
    If I can ever get my PM's to function, so will I.

    And so long as Kahr continues to make one of the finest examples of carry guns in their class, I will continue to do so.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array ron8903's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIXIETWISTER View Post
    Get it, it has probably not even been broke in.
    Or has a problem that original owner could not get worked out.
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
    - Sir Winston Churchill

  8. #37
    Member Array Captain Kahr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Yup. The lesson: every gun within a model from a maker is distinct, in its own right.




    Correction of the problem in the production line, prior to selling it.

    If these were bird feeders or toilet seats, a company has every right to make the buggers as cheaply as they know how.

    But these are defensive life-saving tools we're speaking of. Firearms, which people are relying upon for their very lives. Frankly, a little more attention to getting it perfectly right is justified.

    "Purpose-built" is the term others have used, implying there is no other purpose to these than protecting life. My God, what higher purpose is there than ensuring absolute perfection in a design, fitting and tuning in a product of this nature? Medical Device companies do this, for the exact same reason. Firearms makers, though, are held to the same standards, essentially, as makers of toilet seats and bird feeders (CW9 in mind, here). That's all I'm sayin'.

    What more do I expect out of any company once a problem is found, than what Kahr shows? Not much else can be expected. Kahr absolutely gets top marks for being on the ball and doing everything they can after problems are found. Because of that, I keep trying.

    My CW9 is stellar, for reliability and accuracy. I love it. The K9 I tried a decade ago was the best I'd found to-date, as well. They make good firearms, no argument there. It's simply not evident that Kahr pays any greater attention to detail on their "purpose-built" or premier concealment guns than they do with their least pistols. That's the only problem I have with it, as a protocol.




    If I can ever get my PM's to function, so will I.

    And so long as Kahr continues to make one of the finest examples of carry guns in their class, I will continue to do so.
    Perfect?...wow! Not even Kimber as a production gun can accomplish that and they charge way more than Kahr for their guns.

    As I stated before...All, and I mean all, my Kahrs go bang everytime and are like clockwork. If you someone wants perfection out of the box I don't think they'll ever be satisfied.
    "Get out of my dreams and into my Kahr"

    http://designlinetx.com/

  9. #38
    Member Array Mrbrent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klash545 View Post
    well i never pocket carry,but if you MUST pocket carry then go right ahead.....i did say that i like their pistols,specifically the all steel models. i dont like the lacking capacity though,i think if i was going for single stack i'd just carry a used sig239 or a good,cheap and reliable $250 makarov instead of paying through the nose. i've shot maks enough to trust them.
    I use IWB for all my carry. I don't think I will ever find a gun that is small and light enough for me to pocket carry. I also own a Makarov and had it on my permit but never once carried it. First I could not get any PD ammo for it, second it is very rough around the edges, I dislike the mag release because it is not easy to drop a mag in a hurry, and lastly I like night sights on all my carry guns. Don't get me wrong I love my Mak and its a great shooter but just didn't work for me for CCW. I have a SA EMP 9 that I carry every day, I also have a Sig 232 and now the PM9. I will add it to my CCW when I finish the break in and get some more practice time with it. Be safe out their!

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    I am slowing becoming a Kahr fan. I carried a Glock 19 for over 20 years, a Glock 23 for over 6 years. I shoot a Glock 35 in IDPA.

    I include a Auto Ordance 1911, Made by Kahr, among my Colts. I have put over 1000 rds of .45 ACP ammo through it without any problems

    I have just purchased a used Mk9, made in 1999 and it has become my EDC.

    I have put over 1000 rds of Winchester white box 9mm through it without ANY problems. It came from a local gun store so I have no idea how many rounds have actually been fired out of it. But it was not LNIB, when I got it. Not abused-- but used.

    I have shot it with all kinds of PD ammo including the 147 GR Golden Sabers. No problems with any of the SD ammo either.

    I would not hesitate to compare the reliabilty of MY Kahr's to MY Glocks. I can't speak for anyone eles's experience.

  11. #40
    Ex Member Array targus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kahr View Post
    If you someone wants perfection out of the box I don't think they'll ever be satisfied.
    No such thing, but being highly reliable definitely IS attainable. My PM9 and Glock 19 have been the only two semi-autos that were reliable out of the box. That means at least 500 trouble free rounds from the GET-GO. Can't say the same for my Kimbers, Walthers, Rugers and, MOST DEFINITELY, Kel-Tecs.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kahr View Post
    Perfect?...wow!
    It's the goal of all manufacturers, or should be. A goal, nothing more.

    Obviously, it's unattainable. It's a goal.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #42
    Ex Member Array targus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    It's the goal of all manufacturers, or should be. A goal, nothing more.

    Obviously, it's unattainable. It's a goal.
    My G19 went 10+ years of ownership and countless thousands of rounds, including several training/CCW classes, before it gave me the first problem. A broken trigger return spring, which was a simple and easy fix. Then I had some FTEs with the original 15 round (circa 1994) magazine. Obviously, just a new mag spring fixed it as that magazine was constantly loaded to max capacity most of all that time. So, is/WAS my G19 perfect? No, as it obviously failed at some point. Perfect enough? Definitely for my uses!

    I'd love to see my Kahr PM9 have the same type of long-term reliability. Of course, while understanding that the spring change interval will definitely be considerably shorter than with a Glock 19.

  14. #43
    Member Array Klash545's Avatar
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    yep at least 500 flawless rounds and i begin to start to trust it. as far as maks go silverbear jhps are online and very cheap,so is bulk ammo for it. you could always give it a dehorning job yourself too. i dont find them heavy at all,i think they make a great carry gun.

  15. #44
    Ex Member Array targus's Avatar
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    Again, for the size and weight of a Mak, I'll take a "real" 9mm instead.

  16. #45
    Member Array tennvol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klash545 View Post
    well i never pocket carry,but if you MUST pocket carry then go right ahead.....i did say that i like their pistols,specifically the all steel models. i dont like the lacking capacity though,i think if i was going for single stack i'd just carry a used sig239 or a good,cheap and reliable $250 makarov instead of paying through the nose. i've shot maks enough to trust them.
    Since you said I need to hit the gym since I can't lift a heavier gun maybe you should hit the range and become a better shot if you're insecure about the capacity.

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